How to pronounce "rogue"

foreign

hi everyone thanks for having me Simone

hi everyone thanks for having me Simone

hi everyone thanks for having me Simone great to have you here on um what has

great to have you here on um what has

great to have you here on um what has not been a very dull couple of weeks for

not been a very dull couple of weeks for

not been a very dull couple of weeks for crypto

crypto

crypto um so let's get straight into it um just

um so let's get straight into it um just

um so let's get straight into it um just a reminder to the members please um feel

a reminder to the members please um feel

a reminder to the members please um feel free to submit your questions via the Q

free to submit your questions via the Q

free to submit your questions via the Q a

a

a um and then we will come to them so I'm

um and then we will come to them so I'm

um and then we will come to them so I'm going to get us started

going to get us started

going to get us started um about going down this rabbit hole

um about going down this rabbit hole

um about going down this rabbit hole that is crypto so first question to you

that is crypto so first question to you

that is crypto so first question to you Laura is how did you fall into the

Laura is how did you fall into the

Laura is how did you fall into the crypto rabbit hole

crypto rabbit hole

crypto rabbit hole back in 2015 I was a journalist covering

back in 2015 I was a journalist covering

back in 2015 I was a journalist covering personal finance actually and I was a

personal finance actually and I was a

personal finance actually and I was a contributor at Forbes and I had been

contributor at Forbes and I had been

contributor at Forbes and I had been covering that for a few years and I

covering that for a few years and I

covering that for a few years and I frankly was getting a little ready to

frankly was getting a little ready to

frankly was getting a little ready to move on to something new I wasn't

move on to something new I wasn't

move on to something new I wasn't learning a lot of new things and my

learning a lot of new things and my

learning a lot of new things and my editors didn't want me to necessarily

editors didn't want me to necessarily

editors didn't want me to necessarily leave the section for some other section

leave the section for some other section

leave the section for some other section so they said hey we have this idea what

so they said hey we have this idea what

so they said hey we have this idea what if we do a Forbes fintech 50 list and

if we do a Forbes fintech 50 list and

if we do a Forbes fintech 50 list and you can head up the list with another

you can head up the list with another

you can head up the list with another reporter so she and I divided it into

reporter so she and I divided it into

reporter so she and I divided it into different categories and I took the

different categories and I took the

different categories and I took the category of digital currencies and I

category of digital currencies and I

category of digital currencies and I just became completely obsessed and here

just became completely obsessed and here

just became completely obsessed and here I am seven and a half years later still

I am seven and a half years later still

I am seven and a half years later still just as obsessed as ever and loving it

just as obsessed as ever and loving it

just as obsessed as ever and loving it right well it's definitely a great thing

right well it's definitely a great thing

right well it's definitely a great thing to be in right now so

to be in right now so

to be in right now so um

um

um that begs the question for me so how is

that begs the question for me so how is

that begs the question for me so how is sort of fintech different to to crypto

sort of fintech different to to crypto

sort of fintech different to to crypto because a lot of people sort of Define

because a lot of people sort of Define

because a lot of people sort of Define it as you know crypto sort of like magic

it as you know crypto sort of like magic

it as you know crypto sort of like magic beams or magic internet money that is

beams or magic internet money that is

beams or magic internet money that is kind of pulled out of thin air so so

kind of pulled out of thin air so so

kind of pulled out of thin air so so what is crypto and and how would you

what is crypto and and how would you

what is crypto and and how would you explain it in the simplest terms to you

explain it in the simplest terms to you

explain it in the simplest terms to you know my parents let's say

know my parents let's say

know my parents let's say so fintech is what I would call a

so fintech is what I would call a

so fintech is what I would call a digital veneer on the decades-old

digital veneer on the decades-old

digital veneer on the decades-old existing Financial system that has been

existing Financial system that has been

existing Financial system that has been around kind of like from the 70s you

around kind of like from the 70s you

around kind of like from the 70s you could say the pipes of that system

could say the pipes of that system

could say the pipes of that system uh were created then and crypto is a

uh were created then and crypto is a

uh were created then and crypto is a completely new technology it's like

completely new technology it's like

completely new technology it's like leapfrogging it's it's just something

leapfrogging it's it's just something

leapfrogging it's it's just something fundamentally different

fundamentally different

fundamentally different and with

and with

and with um you know fintech you know when you

um you know fintech you know when you

um you know fintech you know when you look at your venmo or whatever what's

look at your venmo or whatever what's

look at your venmo or whatever what's happening in the background it might

happening in the background it might

happening in the background it might look slick and it might seem fast but

look slick and it might seem fast but

look slick and it might seem fast but what's happening in the background is

what's happening in the background is

what's happening in the background is still kind of the same slow

still kind of the same slow

still kind of the same slow um basically frankly inefficient way of

um basically frankly inefficient way of

um basically frankly inefficient way of managing finances whereas crypto is kind

managing finances whereas crypto is kind

managing finances whereas crypto is kind of a little bit more real time and

of a little bit more real time and

of a little bit more real time and um yeah uses uh basically fancy

um yeah uses uh basically fancy

um yeah uses uh basically fancy cryptography and

cryptography and

cryptography and um is truly digital at its core whereas

um is truly digital at its core whereas

um is truly digital at its core whereas fintech is you could imagine it's more

fintech is you could imagine it's more

fintech is you could imagine it's more like almost like a paper version that

like almost like a paper version that

like almost like a paper version that they just have you know a kind of a

they just have you know a kind of a

they just have you know a kind of a digital

digital

digital um version of uh whereas like I said

um version of uh whereas like I said

um version of uh whereas like I said with crypto

with crypto

with crypto um the money is inherently digital it's

um the money is inherently digital it's

um the money is inherently digital it's not like paper money where we have a

not like paper money where we have a

not like paper money where we have a digital representation

digital representation

digital representation right and you you truly believe that

right and you you truly believe that

right and you you truly believe that crypto is the future despite everything

crypto is the future despite everything

crypto is the future despite everything that's happening right now

that's happening right now

that's happening right now I would say so in the sense that just in

I would say so in the sense that just in

I would say so in the sense that just in the course of my own lifetime if I look

the course of my own lifetime if I look

the course of my own lifetime if I look at how I use the phone

at how I use the phone

at how I use the phone you know when I was young I used to

you know when I was young I used to

you know when I was young I used to pick up a corded phone sometimes

pick up a corded phone sometimes

pick up a corded phone sometimes attached to a wall

attached to a wall

attached to a wall you know drive my parents Crazy by being

you know drive my parents Crazy by being

you know drive my parents Crazy by being on it at all hours and talking to my

on it at all hours and talking to my

on it at all hours and talking to my friends forever and then they you know

friends forever and then they you know

friends forever and then they you know they couldn't be on it I mean we did

they couldn't be on it I mean we did

they couldn't be on it I mean we did call waiting didn't even exist when I

call waiting didn't even exist when I

call waiting didn't even exist when I was little right and if I look today at

was little right and if I look today at

was little right and if I look today at well my phone does now I mean come on

well my phone does now I mean come on

well my phone does now I mean come on it's just you know it's my camera and um

it's just you know it's my camera and um

it's just you know it's my camera and um you know I can message people I can

you know I can message people I can

you know I can message people I can email people I can do my finances I can

email people I can do my finances I can

email people I can do my finances I can write like hold documents in there so

write like hold documents in there so

write like hold documents in there so um you know I feel that when you have

um you know I feel that when you have

um you know I feel that when you have something that is technologically

something that is technologically

something that is technologically Superior it's really only a matter of

Superior it's really only a matter of

Superior it's really only a matter of time before it it wins out and of course

time before it it wins out and of course

time before it it wins out and of course I understand yes betamax didn't win over

I understand yes betamax didn't win over

I understand yes betamax didn't win over VHS but still regardless like that

VHS but still regardless like that

VHS but still regardless like that technology became adopted even if maybe

technology became adopted even if maybe

technology became adopted even if maybe the the best version of it didn't win

the the best version of it didn't win

the the best version of it didn't win out

out

out so in the not too distant future we're

so in the not too distant future we're

so in the not too distant future we're going to start to see different

going to start to see different

going to start to see different utilities that we don't currently see

utilities that we don't currently see

utilities that we don't currently see from crypto

from crypto

from crypto yeah yeah and I think we're already

yeah yeah and I think we're already

yeah yeah and I think we're already seeing that you know whether or not you

seeing that you know whether or not you

seeing that you know whether or not you think they're valuable is a different

think they're valuable is a different

think they're valuable is a different question but

question but

question but um certainly just in the seven and a

um certainly just in the seven and a

um certainly just in the seven and a half years I've covered this I've seen

half years I've covered this I've seen

half years I've covered this I've seen completely new things that have not been

completely new things that have not been

completely new things that have not been witnessed before in history be enabled

witnessed before in history be enabled

witnessed before in history be enabled by crypto

by crypto

by crypto um so

um so

um so what do you think because obviously

what do you think because obviously

what do you think because obviously right now crypto has a little bit of a

right now crypto has a little bit of a

right now crypto has a little bit of a bad rap there's a lot going on

bad rap there's a lot going on

bad rap there's a lot going on um what do you think the biggest

um what do you think the biggest

um what do you think the biggest misconception is about cryptocurrency

misconception is about cryptocurrency

misconception is about cryptocurrency so I would say actually that the first

so I would say actually that the first

so I would say actually that the first one probably is that it is a currency

one probably is that it is a currency

one probably is that it is a currency the reason why that kind of general term

the reason why that kind of general term

the reason why that kind of general term is used is because the very first crypto

is used is because the very first crypto

is used is because the very first crypto asset was a currency which is Bitcoin

asset was a currency which is Bitcoin

asset was a currency which is Bitcoin and so when I use that more general term

and so when I use that more general term

and so when I use that more general term crypto assets what I'm saying is that

crypto assets what I'm saying is that

crypto assets what I'm saying is that you can have similar

you can have similar

you can have similar um you know uh items that aren't

um you know uh items that aren't

um you know uh items that aren't currencies and so let's just take the

currencies and so let's just take the

currencies and so let's just take the two most popular these one is Bitcoin

two most popular these one is Bitcoin

two most popular these one is Bitcoin and the other is ether

and the other is ether

and the other is ether so with Bitcoin as we just mentioned it

so with Bitcoin as we just mentioned it

so with Bitcoin as we just mentioned it was designed to be like a currency and

was designed to be like a currency and

was designed to be like a currency and it actually has a few different

it actually has a few different

it actually has a few different attributes and one other thing that I

attributes and one other thing that I

attributes and one other thing that I want to educate people on is that

want to educate people on is that

want to educate people on is that there's actually two things that are

there's actually two things that are

there's actually two things that are named Bitcoin first the network the

named Bitcoin first the network the

named Bitcoin first the network the blockchain is Bitcoin with a capital B

blockchain is Bitcoin with a capital B

blockchain is Bitcoin with a capital B usually uh that's the typical style and

usually uh that's the typical style and

usually uh that's the typical style and that is The Ledger that enables people

that is The Ledger that enables people

that is The Ledger that enables people to see all the Bitcoin transactions

to see all the Bitcoin transactions

to see all the Bitcoin transactions since the moment that the Bitcoin

since the moment that the Bitcoin

since the moment that the Bitcoin blockchain was launched

blockchain was launched

blockchain was launched and the uh Bitcoin with a lowercase b is

and the uh Bitcoin with a lowercase b is

and the uh Bitcoin with a lowercase b is Bitcoin the asset which is that currency

Bitcoin the asset which is that currency

Bitcoin the asset which is that currency and when you look at the um Bitcoin

and when you look at the um Bitcoin

and when you look at the um Bitcoin white paper that's when you kind of can

white paper that's when you kind of can

white paper that's when you kind of can understand that most people think of

understand that most people think of

understand that most people think of Bitcoin as just those coins you know

Bitcoin as just those coins you know

Bitcoin as just those coins you know that have value and it's this currency

that have value and it's this currency

that have value and it's this currency but actually the subtitle of the Bitcoin

but actually the subtitle of the Bitcoin

but actually the subtitle of the Bitcoin white papers is um it says an electronic

white papers is um it says an electronic

white papers is um it says an electronic peer-to-peer cache system or sorry what

peer-to-peer cache system or sorry what

peer-to-peer cache system or sorry what a peer-to-peer electronic cash system

a peer-to-peer electronic cash system

a peer-to-peer electronic cash system and so

and so

and so um that's really referring to bitcoin

um that's really referring to bitcoin

um that's really referring to bitcoin the blockchain or Bitcoin the network

the blockchain or Bitcoin the network

the blockchain or Bitcoin the network and um ethereum in ethereum it's like a

and um ethereum in ethereum it's like a

and um ethereum in ethereum it's like a little bit easier to to uh to make this

little bit easier to to uh to make this

little bit easier to to uh to make this differentiation because ethereum the

differentiation because ethereum the

differentiation because ethereum the network is called ethereum the asset

network is called ethereum the asset

network is called ethereum the asset itself is called ether

itself is called ether

itself is called ether now to go into why it is that Bitcoin is

now to go into why it is that Bitcoin is

now to go into why it is that Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency versus why ether is a

a cryptocurrency versus why ether is a

a cryptocurrency versus why ether is a different type of crypto asset I'll just

different type of crypto asset I'll just

different type of crypto asset I'll just very simply explain

very simply explain

very simply explain Bitcoin is designed as

Bitcoin is designed as

Bitcoin is designed as um it has a limited supply of 21 million

um it has a limited supply of 21 million

um it has a limited supply of 21 million coins and because it was meant to be

coins and because it was meant to be

coins and because it was meant to be this electronic peer-to-peer electronic

this electronic peer-to-peer electronic

this electronic peer-to-peer electronic cache that is you know what we would

cache that is you know what we would

cache that is you know what we would consider a currency except electronic

consider a currency except electronic

consider a currency except electronic right and so

right and so

right and so um you know what Satoshi was going for

um you know what Satoshi was going for

um you know what Satoshi was going for really was like money however the fact

really was like money however the fact

really was like money however the fact is that because of the 21 million coin

is that because of the 21 million coin

is that because of the 21 million coin limit it is true that nowadays most

limit it is true that nowadays most

limit it is true that nowadays most people probably use Bitcoin more as a

people probably use Bitcoin more as a

people probably use Bitcoin more as a form of what they call store of value or

form of what they call store of value or

form of what they call store of value or digital gold

digital gold

digital gold um because you've probably heard the

um because you've probably heard the

um because you've probably heard the stories there are people who you know

stories there are people who you know

stories there are people who you know bought uh like the most famous example

bought uh like the most famous example

bought uh like the most famous example is somebody who was the first person to

is somebody who was the first person to

is somebody who was the first person to ever spend or actually he didn't spend

ever spend or actually he didn't spend

ever spend or actually he didn't spend the Bitcoins but he posted on Reddit or

the Bitcoins but he posted on Reddit or

the Bitcoins but he posted on Reddit or some Forum I would love it if someone

some Forum I would love it if someone

some Forum I would love it if someone would use Bitcoins to buy me a pizza and

would use Bitcoins to buy me a pizza and

would use Bitcoins to buy me a pizza and so or no he sorry he bought him him I

so or no he sorry he bought him him I

so or no he sorry he bought him him I want to pay someone Bitcoins to get a

want to pay someone Bitcoins to get a

want to pay someone Bitcoins to get a pizza so he spent 10 10 000 Bitcoins to

pizza so he spent 10 10 000 Bitcoins to

pizza so he spent 10 10 000 Bitcoins to get these two pizzas

get these two pizzas

get these two pizzas those are clearly the most expensive

those are clearly the most expensive

those are clearly the most expensive pizzas in history 10 000 Bitcoin

pizzas in history 10 000 Bitcoin

pizzas in history 10 000 Bitcoin nowadays that I mean that's just a huge

nowadays that I mean that's just a huge

nowadays that I mean that's just a huge sum of money so

sum of money so

sum of money so um like probably hundreds of millions of

um like probably hundreds of millions of

um like probably hundreds of millions of dollars

dollars

dollars very expensive

very expensive

very expensive um pizza but so speaking of sort of

um pizza but so speaking of sort of

um pizza but so speaking of sort of crypto currencies as a store of value

crypto currencies as a store of value

crypto currencies as a store of value and before we were talking about sort of

and before we were talking about sort of

and before we were talking about sort of you know some people Divine defining a

you know some people Divine defining a

you know some people Divine defining a sort of magic internet money

sort of magic internet money

sort of magic internet money um one of the things that I think

um one of the things that I think

um one of the things that I think everyone is probably aware of and

everyone is probably aware of and

everyone is probably aware of and reading about in the past couple of

reading about in the past couple of

reading about in the past couple of weeks has related to to

weeks has related to to

weeks has related to to um FTX right so it's been very hard to

um FTX right so it's been very hard to

um FTX right so it's been very hard to avoid the name Sam bankman freed or SPF

avoid the name Sam bankman freed or SPF

avoid the name Sam bankman freed or SPF as he's known

as he's known

as he's known um and for those who haven't been

um and for those who haven't been

um and for those who haven't been following this is the sort of crypto

following this is the sort of crypto

following this is the sort of crypto debacle du jour I think

debacle du jour I think

debacle du jour I think um and SBF is the founder now the former

um and SBF is the founder now the former

um and SBF is the founder now the former CEO of FTX which until

CEO of FTX which until

CEO of FTX which until only a couple of weeks ago was sort of a

only a couple of weeks ago was sort of a

only a couple of weeks ago was sort of a high-flying crypto exchange storing huge

high-flying crypto exchange storing huge

high-flying crypto exchange storing huge amounts of value that

amounts of value that

amounts of value that um has subsequently crashed and burned

um has subsequently crashed and burned

um has subsequently crashed and burned and seems to be bringing a lot of crypto

and seems to be bringing a lot of crypto

and seems to be bringing a lot of crypto down with it so obviously this is I

down with it so obviously this is I

down with it so obviously this is I think a very complicated

think a very complicated

think a very complicated story

story

story um and I'm just wondering like the guy

um and I'm just wondering like the guy

um and I'm just wondering like the guy who was you know FDX as you mentioned

who was you know FDX as you mentioned

who was you know FDX as you mentioned earlier to me you know was just launched

earlier to me you know was just launched

earlier to me you know was just launched in 2019 but somehow in this time SBF was

in 2019 but somehow in this time SBF was

in 2019 but somehow in this time SBF was managed to position himself as the the

managed to position himself as the the

managed to position himself as the the face of a new era of crypto respectable

face of a new era of crypto respectable

face of a new era of crypto respectable that good guy and then I guess my

that good guy and then I guess my

that good guy and then I guess my question is what has happened like how

question is what has happened like how

question is what has happened like how did it Crash and Burn like this

did it Crash and Burn like this

did it Crash and Burn like this okay so so yeah so this is um this is a

okay so so yeah so this is um this is a

okay so so yeah so this is um this is a complex story

complex story

complex story um but what we'll do is we'll start with

um but what we'll do is we'll start with

um but what we'll do is we'll start with how Sam started which is Sam bingman

how Sam started which is Sam bingman

how Sam started which is Sam bingman freed was a traitor and he had

freed was a traitor and he had

freed was a traitor and he had experience doing you know trading in a

experience doing you know trading in a

experience doing you know trading in a more traditional Financial venue and

more traditional Financial venue and

more traditional Financial venue and then he discovered crypto and decided to

then he discovered crypto and decided to

then he discovered crypto and decided to do trading in crypto the trading firm he

do trading in crypto the trading firm he

do trading in crypto the trading firm he launched was Alameda research and then

launched was Alameda research and then

launched was Alameda research and then about a year afterward in 2019 he

about a year afterward in 2019 he

about a year afterward in 2019 he launched FTX which is a cryptocurrency

launched FTX which is a cryptocurrency

launched FTX which is a cryptocurrency Exchange

Exchange

Exchange now people should understand

now people should understand

now people should understand the way a Trader operates is very

the way a Trader operates is very

the way a Trader operates is very different from the way that at least a

different from the way that at least a

different from the way that at least a crypto exchange operator should operate

crypto exchange operator should operate

crypto exchange operator should operate and the reason is that a crypto exchange

and the reason is that a crypto exchange

and the reason is that a crypto exchange is really

is really

is really um probably at its core mainly a

um probably at its core mainly a

um probably at its core mainly a security company frankly because for

security company frankly because for

security company frankly because for anybody who's been following crypto for

anybody who's been following crypto for

anybody who's been following crypto for a while or even if you haven't been

a while or even if you haven't been

a while or even if you haven't been you'll probably notice that a lot of the

you'll probably notice that a lot of the

you'll probably notice that a lot of the headlines are about crypto exchanges

headlines are about crypto exchanges

headlines are about crypto exchanges getting hacked the most famous of these

getting hacked the most famous of these

getting hacked the most famous of these was Mount gox in 2014.

was Mount gox in 2014.

was Mount gox in 2014. and then

and then

and then um you know there was another one uh in

um you know there was another one uh in

um you know there was another one uh in 2016 called bitfinex and that story was

2016 called bitfinex and that story was

2016 called bitfinex and that story was in the news earlier this year because

in the news earlier this year because

in the news earlier this year because the people who were laundering those

the people who were laundering those

the people who were laundering those coins were arrested and the um it was a

coins were arrested and the um it was a

coins were arrested and the um it was a couple and the woman in the couple was

couple and the woman in the couple was

couple and the woman in the couple was an amateur rapper who went by the name

an amateur rapper who went by the name

an amateur rapper who went by the name Razzle Khan so that kind of stormed the

Razzle Khan so that kind of stormed the

Razzle Khan so that kind of stormed the internet for a little while there

internet for a little while there

internet for a little while there um but the point is that a lot of people

um but the point is that a lot of people

um but the point is that a lot of people who run crypto exchanges understand that

who run crypto exchanges understand that

who run crypto exchanges understand that they are constantly being attacked and

they are constantly being attacked and

they are constantly being attacked and the reason is because as we discussed

the reason is because as we discussed

the reason is because as we discussed you know uh Bitcoin was designed as

you know uh Bitcoin was designed as

you know uh Bitcoin was designed as electronic cash right and if you think

electronic cash right and if you think

electronic cash right and if you think about it if you lose cash you are not

about it if you lose cash you are not

about it if you lose cash you are not going to get it back unless whoever

going to get it back unless whoever

going to get it back unless whoever stole it or picked it up from you is

stole it or picked it up from you is

stole it or picked it up from you is going to give it back to you and it's

going to give it back to you and it's

going to give it back to you and it's the same with any crypto you cannot call

the same with any crypto you cannot call

the same with any crypto you cannot call your bank or the crypto exchange or

your bank or the crypto exchange or

your bank or the crypto exchange or customer service somewhere to get you

customer service somewhere to get you

customer service somewhere to get you know to file a fraudulent charge and

know to file a fraudulent charge and

know to file a fraudulent charge and have the transaction reverse that does

have the transaction reverse that does

have the transaction reverse that does not exist because these are

not exist because these are

not exist because these are decentralized networks and once the

decentralized networks and once the

decentralized networks and once the money goes from one person to an another

money goes from one person to an another

money goes from one person to an another one address to another it won't go back

one address to another it won't go back

one address to another it won't go back unless you know someone sends it back to

unless you know someone sends it back to

unless you know someone sends it back to you

you

you so

so

so um that's why when crypto exchanges get

um that's why when crypto exchanges get

um that's why when crypto exchanges get hacked that's like a huge huge you know

hacked that's like a huge huge you know

hacked that's like a huge huge you know um like five alarm fire for them

um like five alarm fire for them

um like five alarm fire for them basically and so many of them they're

basically and so many of them they're

basically and so many of them they're very conscious of security Now the thing

very conscious of security Now the thing

very conscious of security Now the thing is like you know Traders they're kind of

is like you know Traders they're kind of

is like you know Traders they're kind of they're a little bit they just want to

they're a little bit they just want to

they're a little bit they just want to kind of keep making money

kind of keep making money

kind of keep making money so the point the reason why I'm saying

so the point the reason why I'm saying

so the point the reason why I'm saying all this is that what eventually came to

all this is that what eventually came to

all this is that what eventually came to light is that

light is that

light is that um multiple people first of all by the

um multiple people first of all by the

um multiple people first of all by the way before this big debacle pointed out

way before this big debacle pointed out

way before this big debacle pointed out that there's kind of a conflict of

that there's kind of a conflict of

that there's kind of a conflict of interest here because Alameda was

interest here because Alameda was

interest here because Alameda was trading on FTX and so since they have

trading on FTX and so since they have

trading on FTX and so since they have the same owner are they getting some

the same owner are they getting some

the same owner are they getting some kind of Insider information that helps

kind of Insider information that helps

kind of Insider information that helps them kind of basically make smarter

them kind of basically make smarter

them kind of basically make smarter trades and profit at the expense of

trades and profit at the expense of

trades and profit at the expense of everybody else that's trading on the

everybody else that's trading on the

everybody else that's trading on the exchange you know how does that

exchange you know how does that

exchange you know how does that relationship work etc

relationship work etc

relationship work etc so even before all this that question of

so even before all this that question of

so even before all this that question of whether or not there was a dividing line

whether or not there was a dividing line

whether or not there was a dividing line between the two entities came up

between the two entities came up

between the two entities came up now

now

now um the way all this got started uh that

um the way all this got started uh that

um the way all this got started uh that you know resulted in all these headlines

you know resulted in all these headlines

you know resulted in all these headlines is that in early December November uh

is that in early December November uh

is that in early December November uh um a crypto publication called coindesk

um a crypto publication called coindesk

um a crypto publication called coindesk released

released

released what they said was a balance sheet of

what they said was a balance sheet of

what they said was a balance sheet of Alameda from it was like from June now

Alameda from it was like from June now

Alameda from it was like from June now um what was interesting about that

um what was interesting about that

um what was interesting about that balance sheet so Alameda had this

balance sheet so Alameda had this

balance sheet so Alameda had this reputation as being you know one of the

reputation as being you know one of the

reputation as being you know one of the best crypto trading firms but when you

best crypto trading firms but when you

best crypto trading firms but when you looked at the balance sheet one of the

looked at the balance sheet one of the

looked at the balance sheet one of the tokens that the balance sheet was

tokens that the balance sheet was

tokens that the balance sheet was heavily reliant on was a coin called ftt

heavily reliant on was a coin called ftt

heavily reliant on was a coin called ftt and surprise surprise the reason why the

and surprise surprise the reason why the

and surprise surprise the reason why the name sounds similar to FTX is because

name sounds similar to FTX is because

name sounds similar to FTX is because it's the coin of the FTX exchange you

it's the coin of the FTX exchange you

it's the coin of the FTX exchange you can think of that as sort of like

can think of that as sort of like

can think of that as sort of like McDonald's coin or like Starbucks you

McDonald's coin or like Starbucks you

McDonald's coin or like Starbucks you know points or whatever where when you

know points or whatever where when you

know points or whatever where when you use it on the exchange you get either

use it on the exchange you get either

use it on the exchange you get either Rewards or discounts or whatever there's

Rewards or discounts or whatever there's

Rewards or discounts or whatever there's just a benefit to using it but the thing

just a benefit to using it but the thing

just a benefit to using it but the thing is there aren't that many entities

is there aren't that many entities

is there aren't that many entities around the world that like have a super

around the world that like have a super

around the world that like have a super vested interest in having this coin

vested interest in having this coin

vested interest in having this coin other than you know FTX or you know

other than you know FTX or you know

other than you know FTX or you know Alameda basically because they're both

Alameda basically because they're both

Alameda basically because they're both owned by the same person

owned by the same person

owned by the same person and when you looked at kind of the total

and when you looked at kind of the total

and when you looked at kind of the total amount that was in circulation versus

amount that was in circulation versus

amount that was in circulation versus the amount that they had on their

the amount that they had on their

the amount that they had on their balance that Alameda had on their

balance that Alameda had on their

balance that Alameda had on their balance sheet it became very apparent if

balance sheet it became very apparent if

balance sheet it became very apparent if they were to actually try to realize the

they were to actually try to realize the

they were to actually try to realize the paper value of those coins they could

paper value of those coins they could

paper value of those coins they could never do it because if they were to sell

never do it because if they were to sell

never do it because if they were to sell all those in the open market the price

all those in the open market the price

all those in the open market the price would crash

would crash

would crash and so people began to realize like oh

and so people began to realize like oh

and so people began to realize like oh wait Alameda is not on really strong

wait Alameda is not on really strong

wait Alameda is not on really strong financial ground here and so

financial ground here and so

financial ground here and so interestingly

interestingly

interestingly years ago when the so I just saw

years ago when the so I just saw

years ago when the so I just saw somebody ask what's a crash like when

somebody ask what's a crash like when

somebody ask what's a crash like when the price crashes like you know if it

the price crashes like you know if it

the price crashes like you know if it was like 25 it goes to close to zero so

was like 25 it goes to close to zero so

was like 25 it goes to close to zero so back when FTX launched

back when FTX launched

back when FTX launched um somebody named chengpeng Xiao

um somebody named chengpeng Xiao

um somebody named chengpeng Xiao invested in FTX and chiangpang Xiao goes

invested in FTX and chiangpang Xiao goes

invested in FTX and chiangpang Xiao goes by CZ he's one of the most famous people

by CZ he's one of the most famous people

by CZ he's one of the most famous people in crypto because he is the CEO and

in crypto because he is the CEO and

in crypto because he is the CEO and founder of the number one biggest most

founder of the number one biggest most

founder of the number one biggest most successful crypto exchange globally it

successful crypto exchange globally it

successful crypto exchange globally it has like I don't know 70 80 percent of

has like I don't know 70 80 percent of

has like I don't know 70 80 percent of trading volume worldwide is just like

trading volume worldwide is just like

trading volume worldwide is just like super super dominant and CZ had actually

super super dominant and CZ had actually

super super dominant and CZ had actually invested in FTX back in the day but then

invested in FTX back in the day but then

invested in FTX back in the day but then as the two as FTX and binance with

as the two as FTX and binance with

as the two as FTX and binance with binance is the name of CC's exchange as

binance is the name of CC's exchange as

binance is the name of CC's exchange as FTX and binance became more competitive

FTX and binance became more competitive

FTX and binance became more competitive with each other

with each other

with each other Sam bankman freed eventually bought out

Sam bankman freed eventually bought out

Sam bankman freed eventually bought out cz's stake in FTX and when he made the

cz's stake in FTX and when he made the

cz's stake in FTX and when he made the payment to buy him out he made part of

payment to buy him out he made part of

payment to buy him out he made part of the payment in ftt tokens

the payment in ftt tokens

the payment in ftt tokens so after this article by coindesk

so after this article by coindesk

so after this article by coindesk showing the Alameda balance she came out

showing the Alameda balance she came out

showing the Alameda balance she came out CZ tweeted hey you know we're we're

CZ tweeted hey you know we're we're

CZ tweeted hey you know we're we're realizing like this ftt coin isn't maybe

realizing like this ftt coin isn't maybe

realizing like this ftt coin isn't maybe the best coin for us to hold we're gonna

the best coin for us to hold we're gonna

the best coin for us to hold we're gonna sell what we have he you know he said I

sell what we have he you know he said I

sell what we have he you know he said I have 580 million dollars worth of this

have 580 million dollars worth of this

have 580 million dollars worth of this and interestingly this and this is like

and interestingly this and this is like

and interestingly this and this is like a pivotal moment the CEO of Alameda

a pivotal moment the CEO of Alameda

a pivotal moment the CEO of Alameda Caroline Ellison this is like sort of

Caroline Ellison this is like sort of

Caroline Ellison this is like sort of the moment when it all went wrong she

the moment when it all went wrong she

the moment when it all went wrong she tweeted at him I'll happily buy it all

tweeted at him I'll happily buy it all

tweeted at him I'll happily buy it all from you at 22 I it was trading at like

from you at 22 I it was trading at like

from you at 22 I it was trading at like 24.25

24.25

24.25 but all the traders in the world

but all the traders in the world

but all the traders in the world immediately were like what's important

immediately were like what's important

immediately were like what's important about 22 so they are all now trying to

about 22 so they are all now trying to

about 22 so they are all now trying to see if they can get the price below 22

see if they can get the price below 22

see if they can get the price below 22 they realize this is an important price

they realize this is an important price

they realize this is an important price for Alameda ncz by the way said no no

for Alameda ncz by the way said no no

for Alameda ncz by the way said no no we're not going to do a back door back

we're not going to do a back door back

we're not going to do a back door back room deal we're going to sell all these

room deal we're going to sell all these

room deal we're going to sell all these on the open market do it like you know a

on the open market do it like you know a

on the open market do it like you know a more above board way

more above board way

more above board way and so Alameda and FTX probably were

and so Alameda and FTX probably were

and so Alameda and FTX probably were trying to defend the price of this you

trying to defend the price of this you

trying to defend the price of this you know buying a bunch of it to to keep it

know buying a bunch of it to to keep it

know buying a bunch of it to to keep it above that price and you could see

above that price and you could see

above that price and you could see because you know these assets are on

because you know these assets are on

because you know these assets are on these public blockchains where all the

these public blockchains where all the

these public blockchains where all the transactions are visible

transactions are visible

transactions are visible I mean it's like it's just crazy to

I mean it's like it's just crazy to

I mean it's like it's just crazy to think back but they were pulling small

think back but they were pulling small

think back but they were pulling small amounts of money from all these

amounts of money from all these

amounts of money from all these different like D5 protocols or these

different like D5 protocols or these

different like D5 protocols or these different smart contracts and you could

different smart contracts and you could

different smart contracts and you could see they're scrounging up like 5 million

see they're scrounging up like 5 million

see they're scrounging up like 5 million from here 10 million from there like all

from here 10 million from there like all

from here 10 million from there like all this money and

this money and

this money and um and so people began to kind of get

um and so people began to kind of get

um and so people began to kind of get worried also about what's what's the

worried also about what's what's the

worried also about what's what's the situation at FTX

situation at FTX

situation at FTX so customers began withdrawing and

so customers began withdrawing and

so customers began withdrawing and requesting their assets from the FTX

requesting their assets from the FTX

requesting their assets from the FTX exchange and this is why you might have

exchange and this is why you might have

exchange and this is why you might have often heard the term Bank Run when it

often heard the term Bank Run when it

often heard the term Bank Run when it comes to what happened with FTX because

comes to what happened with FTX because

comes to what happened with FTX because the percentage of volumes they were uh

the percentage of volumes they were uh

the percentage of volumes they were uh what's wrong with they were seeing they

what's wrong with they were seeing they

what's wrong with they were seeing they just like shot up right and so they they

just like shot up right and so they they

just like shot up right and so they they were having delays because like you know

were having delays because like you know

were having delays because like you know just doing that just there's I don't

just doing that just there's I don't

just doing that just there's I don't know it could take time right uh and the

know it could take time right uh and the

know it could take time right uh and the reason for that is at least I mean now

reason for that is at least I mean now

reason for that is at least I mean now we know what the real reason was but

we know what the real reason was but

we know what the real reason was but um at a normal exchange the reason why

um at a normal exchange the reason why

um at a normal exchange the reason why it might take time is because

it might take time is because

it might take time is because in order to keep the coins secure

in order to keep the coins secure

in order to keep the coins secure they're often secured in what's called

they're often secured in what's called

they're often secured in what's called Cold Storage which are servers or

Cold Storage which are servers or

Cold Storage which are servers or um you know computers that are

um you know computers that are

um you know computers that are completely disconnected from the

completely disconnected from the

completely disconnected from the internet and often in a place where

internet and often in a place where

internet and often in a place where there's like a whole kind of physical

there's like a whole kind of physical

there's like a whole kind of physical ritual with multiple employees to get

ritual with multiple employees to get

ritual with multiple employees to get those coins because they're yeah I see

those coins because they're yeah I see

those coins because they're yeah I see someone saying it's called air gapped

someone saying it's called air gapped

someone saying it's called air gapped meaning like not connected to the

meaning like not connected to the

meaning like not connected to the internet and so you know there's like a

internet and so you know there's like a

internet and so you know there's like a whole ritual to ensure that no Rogue

whole ritual to ensure that no Rogue

whole ritual to ensure that no Rogue employee is going to hack the exchange

employee is going to hack the exchange

employee is going to hack the exchange or that hackers can't get into it

or that hackers can't get into it

or that hackers can't get into it whatever

whatever

whatever and so um you know when you're

and so um you know when you're

and so um you know when you're transferring funds from Cold Storage to

transferring funds from Cold Storage to

transferring funds from Cold Storage to what can either be called like a warm

what can either be called like a warm

what can either be called like a warm wallet or even a hot wallet hot wallet

wallet or even a hot wallet hot wallet

wallet or even a hot wallet hot wallet is one that's connected to the internet

is one that's connected to the internet

is one that's connected to the internet it's more easily hacked

it's more easily hacked

it's more easily hacked um exchanges typically only have you

um exchanges typically only have you

um exchanges typically only have you know whatever they need for their

know whatever they need for their

know whatever they need for their operations in the hot wallet so it's a

operations in the hot wallet so it's a

operations in the hot wallet so it's a small percentage they keep all the rest

small percentage they keep all the rest

small percentage they keep all the rest in cold storage and then they might have

in cold storage and then they might have

in cold storage and then they might have these medium warm wallets where they um

these medium warm wallets where they um

these medium warm wallets where they um they might sometimes be connected to the

they might sometimes be connected to the

they might sometimes be connected to the internet or whatever it's basically you

internet or whatever it's basically you

internet or whatever it's basically you know just part of the transfer process

know just part of the transfer process

know just part of the transfer process so anyway point is

so anyway point is

so anyway point is um you know that would be the reason why

um you know that would be the reason why

um you know that would be the reason why you might see delays at a normal

you might see delays at a normal

you might see delays at a normal exchange but FTX which what we

exchange but FTX which what we

exchange but FTX which what we eventually found out is that and it

eventually found out is that and it

eventually found out is that and it wasn't that they were like illiquid they

wasn't that they were like illiquid they

wasn't that they were like illiquid they were actually insolvent they had taken

were actually insolvent they had taken

were actually insolvent they had taken the customer funds and had lent them to

the customer funds and had lent them to

the customer funds and had lent them to Alameda the trading firm and apparently

Alameda the trading firm and apparently

Alameda the trading firm and apparently Alameda had some trades that went bad

Alameda had some trades that went bad

Alameda had some trades that went bad they were in the hole and they must have

they were in the hole and they must have

they were in the hole and they must have thought they could trade their way out

thought they could trade their way out

thought they could trade their way out of it and so

of it and so

of it and so um at least so far what we know is that

um at least so far what we know is that

um at least so far what we know is that there's four people including Sam

there's four people including Sam

there's four people including Sam Pinkman freed himself who and Caroline

Pinkman freed himself who and Caroline

Pinkman freed himself who and Caroline and then a few other top Executives who

and then a few other top Executives who

and then a few other top Executives who knew about this I don't know if more

knew about this I don't know if more

knew about this I don't know if more will come out but it looks like they're

will come out but it looks like they're

will come out but it looks like they're about 10 billion dollars in the hole and

about 10 billion dollars in the hole and

about 10 billion dollars in the hole and so that's why FTX eventually filed for

so that's why FTX eventually filed for

so that's why FTX eventually filed for bankruptcy and but one plot twist I need

bankruptcy and but one plot twist I need

bankruptcy and but one plot twist I need to mention along the way was that

to mention along the way was that

to mention along the way was that because FTX had such a sterling

because FTX had such a sterling

because FTX had such a sterling reputation even like people like

reputation even like people like

reputation even like people like researchers who you know study crypto

researchers who you know study crypto

researchers who you know study crypto exchanges all the time they were

exchanges all the time they were

exchanges all the time they were tweeting like the day before like I'm

tweeting like the day before like I'm

tweeting like the day before like I'm sure it's fine like there's this you

sure it's fine like there's this you

sure it's fine like there's this you know run on the exchange but it doesn't

know run on the exchange but it doesn't

know run on the exchange but it doesn't matter and then the next day we woke up

matter and then the next day we woke up

matter and then the next day we woke up to news that binance was going to be

to news that binance was going to be

to news that binance was going to be acquiring FTX and that CZ and Sam had

acquiring FTX and that CZ and Sam had

acquiring FTX and that CZ and Sam had done this kind of handshake deal

done this kind of handshake deal

done this kind of handshake deal which is just crazy because it's like

which is just crazy because it's like

which is just crazy because it's like the biggest two Rivals and then one of

the biggest two Rivals and then one of

the biggest two Rivals and then one of them says that they're going to acquire

them says that they're going to acquire

them says that they're going to acquire the other one and you know FTX actually

the other one and you know FTX actually

the other one and you know FTX actually had a better reputation because it was

had a better reputation because it was

had a better reputation because it was seen as being more regulated and finance

seen as being more regulated and finance

seen as being more regulated and finance was seen as being the one doing like the

was seen as being the one doing like the

was seen as being the one doing like the Uber you know regulatory Arbitrage type

Uber you know regulatory Arbitrage type

Uber you know regulatory Arbitrage type thing so anyway that ended up not

thing so anyway that ended up not

thing so anyway that ended up not happening because the books were so

happening because the books were so

happening because the books were so terrible they didn't want to buy this

terrible they didn't want to buy this

terrible they didn't want to buy this this sinking ship but um but anyway

this sinking ship but um but anyway

this sinking ship but um but anyway there were many other plot twists but

there were many other plot twists but

there were many other plot twists but that's the just hopefully people uh

that's the just hopefully people uh

that's the just hopefully people uh could follow that I know it's very

could follow that I know it's very

could follow that I know it's very complicated seems like good father for

complicated seems like good father for

complicated seems like good father for your next book although it is all

your next book although it is all

your next book although it is all playing out in in public right now so

playing out in in public right now so

playing out in in public right now so um we've got a lot of questions coming

um we've got a lot of questions coming

um we've got a lot of questions coming in from the audience so I'd like to go

in from the audience so I'd like to go

in from the audience so I'd like to go to to some of those

to to some of those

to to some of those um this is from or some variation of

um this is from or some variation of

um this is from or some variation of this from a couple of Ted members um Deb

this from a couple of Ted members um Deb

this from a couple of Ted members um Deb and Nicole

and Nicole

and Nicole um

um

um how does how does cryptocurrency convert

how does how does cryptocurrency convert

how does how does cryptocurrency convert to actual dollars

to actual dollars

to actual dollars um as someone mentioned about it's not

um as someone mentioned about it's not

um as someone mentioned about it's not backed by anything so it's confusing

backed by anything so it's confusing

backed by anything so it's confusing right so because it feels like anyone

right so because it feels like anyone

right so because it feels like anyone can just make up money and the idea of

can just make up money and the idea of

can just make up money and the idea of value gets cost so how does one convert

value gets cost so how does one convert

value gets cost so how does one convert crypto into actual dollars

crypto into actual dollars

crypto into actual dollars so any of these exchanges will will

so any of these exchanges will will

so any of these exchanges will will convert that for you um as long as they

convert that for you um as long as they

convert that for you um as long as they list that trading pair

list that trading pair

list that trading pair um if what you're asking is like how is

um if what you're asking is like how is

um if what you're asking is like how is the price determined it's just simple

the price determined it's just simple

the price determined it's just simple you know supply and demand so um that's

you know supply and demand so um that's

you know supply and demand so um that's why the ftt coin uh you know the more

why the ftt coin uh you know the more

why the ftt coin uh you know the more people that um were selling it the more

people that um were selling it the more

people that um were selling it the more the price was dropping because then

the price was dropping because then

the price was dropping because then there was a greater Supply but less

there was a greater Supply but less

there was a greater Supply but less demand and

demand and

demand and um you know I'll just say like let's uh

um you know I'll just say like let's uh

um you know I'll just say like let's uh you know this isn't referencing any

you know this isn't referencing any

you know this isn't referencing any um recent events but let's say there was

um recent events but let's say there was

um recent events but let's say there was a moment in time like well actually what

a moment in time like well actually what

a moment in time like well actually what happened back in 2017 2018 was that a

happened back in 2017 2018 was that a

happened back in 2017 2018 was that a lot of people wanted to buy ether in

lot of people wanted to buy ether in

lot of people wanted to buy ether in order to participate in these big crowd

order to participate in these big crowd

order to participate in these big crowd sales that were happening and um so

sales that were happening and um so

sales that were happening and um so during that time the price of ether went

during that time the price of ether went

during that time the price of ether went up because the supply it was increasing

up because the supply it was increasing

up because the supply it was increasing like a little bit there's a little bit

like a little bit there's a little bit

like a little bit there's a little bit of inflation but the demand was just

of inflation but the demand was just

of inflation but the demand was just increasing well beyond that so the price

increasing well beyond that so the price

increasing well beyond that so the price of ether just went up and up and up and

of ether just went up and up and up and

of ether just went up and up and up and it started at like I forget maybe like

it started at like I forget maybe like

it started at like I forget maybe like 15 that year or something and it went to

15 that year or something and it went to

15 that year or something and it went to like 1100 a year later so yeah so

like 1100 a year later so yeah so

like 1100 a year later so yeah so um given not just the FTX situation but

um given not just the FTX situation but

um given not just the FTX situation but some of the other sort of scandalous

some of the other sort of scandalous

some of the other sort of scandalous crypto things that have happened

crypto things that have happened

crypto things that have happened um what kinds of

um what kinds of

um what kinds of regulations or checks and balances do

regulations or checks and balances do

regulations or checks and balances do you think can can prevent situations

you think can can prevent situations

you think can can prevent situations like this in in the future and and you

like this in in the future and and you

like this in in the future and and you know it seems

know it seems

know it seems obvious that perhaps this the the FDX

obvious that perhaps this the the FDX

obvious that perhaps this the the FDX situation would would at least put a bit

situation would would at least put a bit

situation would would at least put a bit more of a sense of urgency

more of a sense of urgency

more of a sense of urgency um on actual regulation passing

um on actual regulation passing

um on actual regulation passing yeah so

yeah so

yeah so um so here's something that's

um so here's something that's

um so here's something that's interesting I'm going to actually say

interesting I'm going to actually say

interesting I'm going to actually say that a way to avoid this is also built

that a way to avoid this is also built

that a way to avoid this is also built into the technology itself

into the technology itself

into the technology itself and um this is actually yeah some some

and um this is actually yeah some some

and um this is actually yeah some some bits I wanted to get into kind of

bits I wanted to get into kind of

bits I wanted to get into kind of earlier on

earlier on

earlier on um so I'll talk a little bit about ether

um so I'll talk a little bit about ether

um so I'll talk a little bit about ether and how you know we didn't talk about

and how you know we didn't talk about

and how you know we didn't talk about how that's a different type of asset

how that's a different type of asset

how that's a different type of asset it's it's also a crypto asset but it's

it's it's also a crypto asset but it's

it's it's also a crypto asset but it's not a currency and I'll explain that and

not a currency and I'll explain that and

not a currency and I'll explain that and you'll learn like what the purpose of

you'll learn like what the purpose of

you'll learn like what the purpose of Bitcoin of ether of ethereum is and

Bitcoin of ether of ethereum is and

Bitcoin of ether of ethereum is and through that we can talk a little bit

through that we can talk a little bit

through that we can talk a little bit about how this technology could prevent

about how this technology could prevent

about how this technology could prevent something like FTX so um as I mentioned

something like FTX so um as I mentioned

something like FTX so um as I mentioned Bitcoin started as this cryptocurrency

Bitcoin started as this cryptocurrency

Bitcoin started as this cryptocurrency and as people were innovating on it

and as people were innovating on it

and as people were innovating on it vitalik buterin the creator of ethereum

vitalik buterin the creator of ethereum

vitalik buterin the creator of ethereum he could see that what they kept doing

he could see that what they kept doing

he could see that what they kept doing was they said they would say oh I'm

was they said they would say oh I'm

was they said they would say oh I'm going to launch this new blockchain and

going to launch this new blockchain and

going to launch this new blockchain and it has additional features to what

it has additional features to what

it has additional features to what Bitcoin has

Bitcoin has

Bitcoin has and he thought okay well if people keep

and he thought okay well if people keep

and he thought okay well if people keep doing that then each new blockchain is

doing that then each new blockchain is

doing that then each new blockchain is just going to make the one before it's

just going to make the one before it's

just going to make the one before it's sort of obsolete so why wouldn't you

sort of obsolete so why wouldn't you

sort of obsolete so why wouldn't you create kind of a different type of

create kind of a different type of

create kind of a different type of blockchain that was built more around a

blockchain that was built more around a

blockchain that was built more around a programming language

programming language

programming language and then any developer in the world

and then any developer in the world

and then any developer in the world could dream up any application and

could dream up any application and

could dream up any application and upload it the way that many uh

upload it the way that many uh

upload it the way that many uh developers nowadays upload their own

developers nowadays upload their own

developers nowadays upload their own ideas for applications to the App Store

ideas for applications to the App Store

ideas for applications to the App Store and our phones right now what would be

and our phones right now what would be

and our phones right now what would be different though the reason why it

different though the reason why it

different though the reason why it wouldn't be like the Apple App Store or

wouldn't be like the Apple App Store or

wouldn't be like the Apple App Store or the Google app store is that it would be

the Google app store is that it would be

the Google app store is that it would be decentralized and that's the the key

decentralized and that's the the key

decentralized and that's the the key Innovation with Bitcoin is that it's

Innovation with Bitcoin is that it's

Innovation with Bitcoin is that it's decentralized there had been previous

decentralized there had been previous

decentralized there had been previous attempts at electronic currency but all

attempts at electronic currency but all

attempts at electronic currency but all of those were quote unquote centralized

of those were quote unquote centralized

of those were quote unquote centralized meaning there was a single point of

meaning there was a single point of

meaning there was a single point of failure there was a company

failure there was a company

failure there was a company or you know some you know entity that

or you know some you know entity that

or you know some you know entity that was in charge of like making sure all

was in charge of like making sure all

was in charge of like making sure all the transactions were happening or

the transactions were happening or

the transactions were happening or issuing the currency or whatever it was

issuing the currency or whatever it was

issuing the currency or whatever it was and that entity could also be then shut

and that entity could also be then shut

and that entity could also be then shut down by a government

down by a government

down by a government with Bitcoin this is something that's

with Bitcoin this is something that's

with Bitcoin this is something that's just run by people all over the globe

just run by people all over the globe

just run by people all over the globe it's not a company there's no you know

it's not a company there's no you know

it's not a company there's no you know board or CEO or any Executives they've

board or CEO or any Executives they've

board or CEO or any Executives they've never hired security to run the coin

never hired security to run the coin

never hired security to run the coin Etc

Etc

Etc um but the incentives built into the

um but the incentives built into the

um but the incentives built into the coin will

coin will

coin will um basically get people to contribute

um basically get people to contribute

um basically get people to contribute security to the network

security to the network

security to the network and um what I mean by that is you've

and um what I mean by that is you've

and um what I mean by that is you've probably heard of mining

probably heard of mining

probably heard of mining so Bitcoin mining is a process by which

so Bitcoin mining is a process by which

so Bitcoin mining is a process by which people can kind of essentially win the

people can kind of essentially win the

people can kind of essentially win the new coins that are being minted by the

new coins that are being minted by the

new coins that are being minted by the software every 10 minutes on average

software every 10 minutes on average

software every 10 minutes on average and

and

and um what's interesting is those people

um what's interesting is those people

um what's interesting is those people think hey I'm just getting this you know

think hey I'm just getting this you know

think hey I'm just getting this you know money that's just being created and I'm

money that's just being created and I'm

money that's just being created and I'm I'm entering into this contest to win it

I'm entering into this contest to win it

I'm entering into this contest to win it but when they do that what they're doing

but when they do that what they're doing

but when they do that what they're doing is they are contributing security to the

is they are contributing security to the

is they are contributing security to the Bitcoin blockchain it makes it harder to

Bitcoin blockchain it makes it harder to

Bitcoin blockchain it makes it harder to hack the more computer power you have on

hack the more computer power you have on

hack the more computer power you have on that Network so that incentive was just

that Network so that incentive was just

that Network so that incentive was just built into the coin you didn't have to

built into the coin you didn't have to

built into the coin you didn't have to hire you know people an I.T Department

hire you know people an I.T Department

hire you know people an I.T Department to like make sure security was strong

to like make sure security was strong

to like make sure security was strong none of that it's literally just the

none of that it's literally just the

none of that it's literally just the incentives into the coin got people to

incentives into the coin got people to

incentives into the coin got people to make the network more secure

make the network more secure

make the network more secure and so

and so

and so um ethereum wanted to do the same thing

um ethereum wanted to do the same thing

um ethereum wanted to do the same thing to have a decentralized you know uh

to have a decentralized you know uh

to have a decentralized you know uh crypto asset but also now it would be

crypto asset but also now it would be

crypto asset but also now it would be instead of a decentralized

instead of a decentralized

instead of a decentralized um peer-to-peer electronic cash system

um peer-to-peer electronic cash system

um peer-to-peer electronic cash system it would be a decentralized Computing

it would be a decentralized Computing

it would be a decentralized Computing platform so you might have heard people

platform so you might have heard people

platform so you might have heard people sometimes say that ethereum is a world

sometimes say that ethereum is a world

sometimes say that ethereum is a world computer or whatever but essentially

computer or whatever but essentially

computer or whatever but essentially it's a place where you know like I said

it's a place where you know like I said

it's a place where you know like I said it's an app store where you can upload

it's an app store where you can upload

it's an app store where you can upload these decentralized applications so

these decentralized applications so

these decentralized applications so instead of only having Bitcoin you know

instead of only having Bitcoin you know

instead of only having Bitcoin you know Bitcoin is um it's only like I said

Bitcoin is um it's only like I said

Bitcoin is um it's only like I said electronic uh peer-to-peer electronic

electronic uh peer-to-peer electronic

electronic uh peer-to-peer electronic cash

cash

cash um now on ethereum you have like

um now on ethereum you have like

um now on ethereum you have like I know you have like decentralized

I know you have like decentralized

I know you have like decentralized borrowing and lending protocols you have

borrowing and lending protocols you have

borrowing and lending protocols you have decentralized prediction markets you

decentralized prediction markets you

decentralized prediction markets you have these decentralized nft projects or

have these decentralized nft projects or

have these decentralized nft projects or whatever I mean there's just there's so

whatever I mean there's just there's so

whatever I mean there's just there's so many different ways so in order to

many different ways so in order to

many different ways so in order to participate in this sort of

participate in this sort of

participate in this sort of decentralized economy right what's the

decentralized economy right what's the

decentralized economy right what's the gating Factor right so I own some crypto

gating Factor right so I own some crypto

gating Factor right so I own some crypto not much because I don't truly

not much because I don't truly

not much because I don't truly understand it and and

understand it and and

understand it and and um it was surprisingly easy for me to do

um it was surprisingly easy for me to do

um it was surprisingly easy for me to do that through

that through

that through um through coinbase I don't actually

um through coinbase I don't actually

um through coinbase I don't actually have a wallet so but my sense is this is

have a wallet so but my sense is this is

have a wallet so but my sense is this is still not something that most people can

still not something that most people can

still not something that most people can participate in

participate in

participate in well so

well so

well so you're so okay so coinbase

you're so okay so coinbase

you're so okay so coinbase um actually it does make it you know

um actually it does make it you know

um actually it does make it you know quite easy to buy and sell

quite easy to buy and sell

quite easy to buy and sell cryptocurrencies

cryptocurrencies

cryptocurrencies um but when you do that you're doing it

um but when you do that you're doing it

um but when you do that you're doing it on a centralized platform right because

on a centralized platform right because

on a centralized platform right because coinbase is controlling the whole thing

coinbase is controlling the whole thing

coinbase is controlling the whole thing and they keep their ledgers they make

and they keep their ledgers they make

and they keep their ledgers they make sure that the amount of coins that you

sure that the amount of coins that you

sure that the amount of coins that you have on your in your account is the the

have on your in your account is the the

have on your in your account is the the amount like they're they're doing that

amount like they're they're doing that

amount like they're they're doing that they're not relying on any blockchain

they're not relying on any blockchain

they're not relying on any blockchain it's just their internal systems right

it's just their internal systems right

it's just their internal systems right but but but that's the easiest way for

but but but that's the easiest way for

but but but that's the easiest way for most people to quote unquote get into

most people to quote unquote get into

most people to quote unquote get into crypto right so yeah you're going from

crypto right so yeah you're going from

crypto right so yeah you're going from decentralized you're getting to the

decentralized you're getting to the

decentralized you're getting to the decentralized Via something that is

decentralized Via something that is

decentralized Via something that is centralized so when do we get to a point

centralized so when do we get to a point

centralized so when do we get to a point when we don't need a coinbase or

when we don't need a coinbase or

when we don't need a coinbase or something like that yeah so for people

something like that yeah so for people

something like that yeah so for people who start by buying on coinbase they

who start by buying on coinbase they

who start by buying on coinbase they would then withdraw to what is called

would then withdraw to what is called

would then withdraw to what is called the self-custodial wallet or a

the self-custodial wallet or a

the self-custodial wallet or a self-hosted wallet or

self-hosted wallet or

self-hosted wallet or um sometimes it's called an unhosted

um sometimes it's called an unhosted

um sometimes it's called an unhosted wallet and the host means it can mean

wallet and the host means it can mean

wallet and the host means it can mean like someone else is managing your

like someone else is managing your

like someone else is managing your private keys for you to make sure you

private keys for you to make sure you

private keys for you to make sure you don't lose your coins but if you

don't lose your coins but if you

don't lose your coins but if you yourself are managing your own private

yourself are managing your own private

yourself are managing your own private Keys then you're the one in control of

Keys then you're the one in control of

Keys then you're the one in control of the wallet you're the one making sure

the wallet you're the one making sure

the wallet you're the one making sure nobody hacks into it that you don't lose

nobody hacks into it that you don't lose

nobody hacks into it that you don't lose it it doesn't get burned in a fire

it it doesn't get burned in a fire

it it doesn't get burned in a fire whatever that you don't lose

whatever that you don't lose

whatever that you don't lose um the private keys or the or the the

um the private keys or the or the the

um the private keys or the or the the password or what's called your seed

password or what's called your seed

password or what's called your seed phrase

phrase

phrase um I know all the you don't need to know

um I know all the you don't need to know

um I know all the you don't need to know all these things but you can think of it

all these things but you can think of it

all these things but you can think of it as simply similar to a password

as simply similar to a password

as simply similar to a password um on coinbase your password will open

um on coinbase your password will open

um on coinbase your password will open will open your coinbase account but if

will open your coinbase account but if

will open your coinbase account but if you yourself are managing your own

you yourself are managing your own

you yourself are managing your own private keys of your own crypto then

private keys of your own crypto then

private keys of your own crypto then this quote unquote seed phrase or

this quote unquote seed phrase or

this quote unquote seed phrase or whatever that just gives you access to

whatever that just gives you access to

whatever that just gives you access to to your coin so you can send them out of

to your coin so you can send them out of

to your coin so you can send them out of your wallet so when you are interacting

your wallet so when you are interacting

your wallet so when you are interacting with crypto in this way where you're not

with crypto in this way where you're not

with crypto in this way where you're not using an intermediary like coinbase to

using an intermediary like coinbase to

using an intermediary like coinbase to do the transactions for you but you are

do the transactions for you but you are

do the transactions for you but you are um basically using your own private keys

um basically using your own private keys

um basically using your own private keys to initiate a transaction on a

to initiate a transaction on a

to initiate a transaction on a blockchain then you are doing it in this

blockchain then you are doing it in this

blockchain then you are doing it in this decentralized fashion and the blockchain

decentralized fashion and the blockchain

decentralized fashion and the blockchain will often you know how let's say it has

will often you know how let's say it has

will often you know how let's say it has one of these decentralized applications

one of these decentralized applications

one of these decentralized applications on it that decentralized application is

on it that decentralized application is

on it that decentralized application is usually what they call a smart contract

usually what they call a smart contract

usually what they call a smart contract and you can think of it almost as like a

and you can think of it almost as like a

and you can think of it almost as like a financial vending machine so if you have

financial vending machine so if you have

financial vending machine so if you have a decentralized borrowing and lending

a decentralized borrowing and lending

a decentralized borrowing and lending protocol on ethereum you know when we do

protocol on ethereum you know when we do

protocol on ethereum you know when we do borrowing and lending the traditional

borrowing and lending the traditional

borrowing and lending the traditional Financial world like you have to go to

Financial world like you have to go to

Financial world like you have to go to the bank and you have to you know talk

the bank and you have to you know talk

the bank and you have to you know talk to people and like people are deciding

to people and like people are deciding

to people and like people are deciding are you what's your FICO score and are

are you what's your FICO score and are

are you what's your FICO score and are you credit worthy and whatever

you credit worthy and whatever

you credit worthy and whatever but when you do it in this decentralized

but when you do it in this decentralized

but when you do it in this decentralized fashion they don't necessarily know who

fashion they don't necessarily know who

fashion they don't necessarily know who you are um and it's not even a they it's

you are um and it's not even a they it's

you are um and it's not even a they it's literally just a software program that's

literally just a software program that's

literally just a software program that's been uploaded to ethereum or one of

been uploaded to ethereum or one of

been uploaded to ethereum or one of these other blockchains got it so um a

these other blockchains got it so um a

these other blockchains got it so um a question from Anjali um which I think is

question from Anjali um which I think is

question from Anjali um which I think is timely um do you have a suggestion on a

timely um do you have a suggestion on a

timely um do you have a suggestion on a sort of like good 101 to read on crypto

sort of like good 101 to read on crypto

sort of like good 101 to read on crypto and Bitcoin and nfts

and Bitcoin and nfts

and Bitcoin and nfts um like a crypto for dummies type thing

um like a crypto for dummies type thing

um like a crypto for dummies type thing I mean I can give you some stuff that I

I mean I can give you some stuff that I

I mean I can give you some stuff that I wrote

um yeah and some podcasts but but wait I

um yeah and some podcasts but but wait I

um yeah and some podcasts but but wait I actually want to just explain how that

actually want to just explain how that

actually want to just explain how that can

can

can um prevent an FTX kind of situation so

um prevent an FTX kind of situation so

um prevent an FTX kind of situation so um FTX like coinbase is a centralized

um FTX like coinbase is a centralized

um FTX like coinbase is a centralized entity so because they were mismanaging

entity so because they were mismanaging

entity so because they were mismanaging their books in this way and you know it

their books in this way and you know it

their books in this way and you know it looks like also committing fraud all of

looks like also committing fraud all of

looks like also committing fraud all of that is like you can't see that that's

that is like you can't see that that's

that is like you can't see that that's just in their systems and even

just in their systems and even

just in their systems and even high-ranking Executives at FTX had no

high-ranking Executives at FTX had no

high-ranking Executives at FTX had no idea this was going on you know as I

idea this was going on you know as I

idea this was going on you know as I said so far all we know is only four

said so far all we know is only four

said so far all we know is only four people knew about this

people knew about this

people knew about this if you're doing this um with these

if you're doing this um with these

if you're doing this um with these decentralized lending and borrowing

decentralized lending and borrowing

decentralized lending and borrowing protocols

protocols

protocols um because the software has rules built

um because the software has rules built

um because the software has rules built into it like you can't do those kinds of

into it like you can't do those kinds of

into it like you can't do those kinds of things it won't let you because it's

things it won't let you because it's

things it won't let you because it's just like a it's like a stupid software

just like a it's like a stupid software

just like a it's like a stupid software you know they're called smart contracts

you know they're called smart contracts

you know they're called smart contracts but in a way they like they can't like

but in a way they like they can't like

but in a way they like they can't like think beyond the the rules that have

think beyond the the rules that have

think beyond the the rules that have been set up so for instance a lot of

been set up so for instance a lot of

been set up so for instance a lot of these lenders in crypto the centralized

these lenders in crypto the centralized

these lenders in crypto the centralized lenders have gone bankrupt this past

lenders have gone bankrupt this past

lenders have gone bankrupt this past summer

summer

summer and it's because you know whatever they

and it's because you know whatever they

and it's because you know whatever they didn't follow all the best practices but

didn't follow all the best practices but

didn't follow all the best practices but was interesting to see is that a number

was interesting to see is that a number

was interesting to see is that a number of them when they were going bankrupt in

of them when they were going bankrupt in

of them when they were going bankrupt in order to even get their assets out of

order to even get their assets out of

order to even get their assets out of any of the decentralized lending

any of the decentralized lending

any of the decentralized lending protocols that they were participating

protocols that they were participating

protocols that they were participating in

in

in they couldn't access that money unless

they couldn't access that money unless

they couldn't access that money unless they followed all the rules of the

they followed all the rules of the

they followed all the rules of the protocol

protocol

protocol so like none of this contagion hit these

so like none of this contagion hit these

so like none of this contagion hit these D5 protocols there there was one which

D5 protocols there there was one which

D5 protocols there there was one which we can talk about it's not a true D5

we can talk about it's not a true D5

we can talk about it's not a true D5 protocol but it's sort of a separate um

protocol but it's sort of a separate um

protocol but it's sort of a separate um situation if you've heard of that like

situation if you've heard of that like

situation if you've heard of that like just set it aside it's it's not one of

just set it aside it's it's not one of

just set it aside it's it's not one of the core defy um protocols but the point

the core defy um protocols but the point

the core defy um protocols but the point is that everybody was remarking that all

is that everybody was remarking that all

is that everybody was remarking that all these centralized lenders were going

these centralized lenders were going

these centralized lenders were going under and meanwhile all the defy

under and meanwhile all the defy

under and meanwhile all the defy borrowing and lending protocols were

borrowing and lending protocols were

borrowing and lending protocols were totally fine and all the liquidations

totally fine and all the liquidations

totally fine and all the liquidations were orderly and everything was just

were orderly and everything was just

were orderly and everything was just working as

working as

working as um you know planned because nobody could

um you know planned because nobody could

um you know planned because nobody could mess with it it was like the software

mess with it it was like the software

mess with it it was like the software was there smart contracts were running

was there smart contracts were running

was there smart contracts were running and you just can't change the rules so

and you just can't change the rules so

and you just can't change the rules so so the technology is there so the the

so the technology is there so the the

so the technology is there so the the the weak points come in when when humans

the weak points come in when when humans

the weak points come in when when humans start to try and figure out how to game

start to try and figure out how to game

start to try and figure out how to game it in a way so give it given that and

it in a way so give it given that and

it in a way so give it given that and this is a question from from um from Dan

this is a question from from um from Dan

this is a question from from um from Dan um you know is there a way to eliminate

um you know is there a way to eliminate

um you know is there a way to eliminate Market manipulation if you have people

Market manipulation if you have people

Market manipulation if you have people trying to pump specific coins

trying to pump specific coins

trying to pump specific coins or specific crypto so for example as

or specific crypto so for example as

or specific crypto so for example as 10 member dancers like he gets the

10 member dancers like he gets the

10 member dancers like he gets the impression that Elon Musk keeps trying

impression that Elon Musk keeps trying

impression that Elon Musk keeps trying to pump Dogecoin or is it Doja coin they

to pump Dogecoin or is it Doja coin they

to pump Dogecoin or is it Doja coin they never know how to pronounce it yeah but

never know how to pronounce it yeah but

never know how to pronounce it yeah but you know is there a way to eliminate

you know is there a way to eliminate

you know is there a way to eliminate that kind of Market manipulation

so that would probably more be more like

so that would probably more be more like

so that would probably more be more like a regulatory issue because

a regulatory issue because

a regulatory issue because um you know that's more like policing

um you know that's more like policing

um you know that's more like policing the interim intermediaries or people's

the interim intermediaries or people's

the interim intermediaries or people's behavior

behavior

behavior um you know unfortunately I have seen a

um you know unfortunately I have seen a

um you know unfortunately I have seen a lot of these crypto pump and dumps

lot of these crypto pump and dumps

lot of these crypto pump and dumps they're it's very similar to kind of a

they're it's very similar to kind of a

they're it's very similar to kind of a penny stock type World

penny stock type World

penny stock type World um that really depends on education but

um that really depends on education but

um that really depends on education but yeah something that's a little bit

yeah something that's a little bit

yeah something that's a little bit disheartening to see is that some of the

disheartening to see is that some of the

disheartening to see is that some of the worst crypto pump and dumpers they have

worst crypto pump and dumpers they have

worst crypto pump and dumpers they have like the biggest audiences and you know

like the biggest audiences and you know

like the biggest audiences and you know it's just people are kind of desperate

it's just people are kind of desperate

it's just people are kind of desperate for a quick buck so I really think

for a quick buck so I really think

for a quick buck so I really think actually it's more like Financial

actually it's more like Financial

actually it's more like Financial education that's needed yeah I think I

education that's needed yeah I think I

education that's needed yeah I think I read somewhere that there's almost 20

read somewhere that there's almost 20

read somewhere that there's almost 20 000 cryptocurrencies around and it's

000 cryptocurrencies around and it's

000 cryptocurrencies around and it's just Beggar's belief that they could all

just Beggar's belief that they could all

just Beggar's belief that they could all have any value

have any value

have any value um so

um so

um so um so given given all that's going on

um so given given all that's going on

um so given given all that's going on and this is another uh question from the

and this is another uh question from the

and this is another uh question from the audience I'm from agath

audience I'm from agath

audience I'm from agath um with all the recent events in crypto

um with all the recent events in crypto

um with all the recent events in crypto do you think that the the future of

do you think that the the future of

do you think that the the future of crypto is is compromised

crypto is is compromised

crypto is is compromised no no not necessarily I definitely think

no no not necessarily I definitely think

no no not necessarily I definitely think that

that

that um there's a lot of bad PR right now for

um there's a lot of bad PR right now for

um there's a lot of bad PR right now for the industry and they'll have to kind of

the industry and they'll have to kind of

the industry and they'll have to kind of get past that

get past that

get past that um the main issue that I see is you know

um the main issue that I see is you know

um the main issue that I see is you know as I mentioned

as I mentioned

as I mentioned um I do think the technology uh has

um I do think the technology uh has

um I do think the technology uh has built into it uh ways to prevent things

built into it uh ways to prevent things

built into it uh ways to prevent things like like FTX

like like FTX

like like FTX um and you know the sad kind of

um and you know the sad kind of

um and you know the sad kind of situation that that has happened here is

situation that that has happened here is

situation that that has happened here is that Bitcoin was actually born out of

that Bitcoin was actually born out of

that Bitcoin was actually born out of the great financial crisis

the great financial crisis

the great financial crisis Satoshi in the first block of the

Satoshi in the first block of the

Satoshi in the first block of the Bitcoin blockchain he wrote a message

Bitcoin blockchain he wrote a message

Bitcoin blockchain he wrote a message and it was calling out this headline

and it was calling out this headline

and it was calling out this headline um about a bailout for banks and you

um about a bailout for banks and you

um about a bailout for banks and you know this is January 2009 so this was

know this is January 2009 so this was

know this is January 2009 so this was kind of when the great financial crisis

kind of when the great financial crisis

kind of when the great financial crisis was in full swing and so you know he

was in full swing and so you know he

was in full swing and so you know he kind of was saying like hey I have this

kind of was saying like hey I have this

kind of was saying like hey I have this alternative to this kind of crazy

alternative to this kind of crazy

alternative to this kind of crazy situation that we have going on here and

situation that we have going on here and

situation that we have going on here and so

so

so um it's just very sad to see that crypto

um it's just very sad to see that crypto

um it's just very sad to see that crypto has actually created this whole world of

has actually created this whole world of

has actually created this whole world of centralized entities that literally

centralized entities that literally

centralized entities that literally mimic the existing Financial system and

mimic the existing Financial system and

mimic the existing Financial system and so

so

so um those are all the ones that failed uh

um those are all the ones that failed uh

um those are all the ones that failed uh you know these past several months and I

you know these past several months and I

you know these past several months and I feel like it's it's probably a lesson

feel like it's it's probably a lesson

feel like it's it's probably a lesson More For That industry and for the

More For That industry and for the

More For That industry and for the people in that Community to realize like

people in that Community to realize like

people in that Community to realize like we need to go back to Our Roots we need

we need to go back to Our Roots we need

we need to go back to Our Roots we need to look at more like of these

to look at more like of these

to look at more like of these self-custody solutions that I talked

self-custody solutions that I talked

self-custody solutions that I talked about

about

about you know there's a mantra in the crypto

you know there's a mantra in the crypto

you know there's a mantra in the crypto world not your keys not your coins

world not your keys not your coins

world not your keys not your coins meaning uh people in crypto have learned

meaning uh people in crypto have learned

meaning uh people in crypto have learned time and again if you are not managing

time and again if you are not managing

time and again if you are not managing your own private keys and the person or

your own private keys and the person or

your own private keys and the person or entity managing it for you loses those

entity managing it for you loses those

entity managing it for you loses those private keys or lends it to their

private keys or lends it to their

private keys or lends it to their training firm or you know whatever like

training firm or you know whatever like

training firm or you know whatever like you like at a certain point you just

you like at a certain point you just

you like at a certain point you just might have no recourse so

might have no recourse so

might have no recourse so um there's you know I see a lot of

um there's you know I see a lot of

um there's you know I see a lot of people talking about how they they um

people talking about how they they um

people talking about how they they um are even like I had an entrepreneur and

are even like I had an entrepreneur and

are even like I had an entrepreneur and I have this like premium offering and uh

I have this like premium offering and uh

I have this like premium offering and uh he came on and did an interview and he

he came on and did an interview and he

he came on and did an interview and he offers one of these self-custodial

offers one of these self-custodial

offers one of these self-custodial wallets he said since FTX they have seen

wallets he said since FTX they have seen

wallets he said since FTX they have seen triple digit growth and I was like wait

triple digit growth and I was like wait

triple digit growth and I was like wait wait wait you mean just in the last few

wait wait you mean just in the last few

wait wait you mean just in the last few weeks he was like yes so people clearly

weeks he was like yes so people clearly

weeks he was like yes so people clearly understand now okay it's dangerous to

understand now okay it's dangerous to

understand now okay it's dangerous to use these centralized entities

use these centralized entities

use these centralized entities and even the I've had you know I had a

and even the I've had you know I had a

and even the I've had you know I had a an owner of a crypto exchange on my Show

an owner of a crypto exchange on my Show

an owner of a crypto exchange on my Show recently Jesse Powell he's been in the

recently Jesse Powell he's been in the

recently Jesse Powell he's been in the the crypto space since like 2010 or 2011

the crypto space since like 2010 or 2011

the crypto space since like 2010 or 2011 or something and I asked him well you

or something and I asked him well you

or something and I asked him well you know for you that's not good for your

know for you that's not good for your

know for you that's not good for your business right and he was like no no no

business right and he was like no no no

business right and he was like no no no no once people buy their coins I'm not

no once people buy their coins I'm not

no once people buy their coins I'm not making any money holding it on my

making any money holding it on my

making any money holding it on my exchange for them and in fact it's a

exchange for them and in fact it's a

exchange for them and in fact it's a security risk for us it just creates

security risk for us it just creates

security risk for us it just creates more enticement for hackers so I want

more enticement for hackers so I want

more enticement for hackers so I want people to move their money to their own

people to move their money to their own

people to move their money to their own wallets so

wallets so

wallets so um yeah we'll we'll see if that happens

um yeah we'll we'll see if that happens

um yeah we'll we'll see if that happens but frankly it'll probably be

but frankly it'll probably be

but frankly it'll probably be um a lot of Regulation as well and the

um a lot of Regulation as well and the

um a lot of Regulation as well and the one unfortunate thing about regulation

one unfortunate thing about regulation

one unfortunate thing about regulation is that all the current regulations

is that all the current regulations

is that all the current regulations they are built assuming that there is an

they are built assuming that there is an

they are built assuming that there is an intermediary

intermediary

intermediary so there is a risk that the regulations

so there is a risk that the regulations

so there is a risk that the regulations that they propose here will be ones that

that they propose here will be ones that

that they propose here will be ones that kind of force crypto to have more

kind of force crypto to have more

kind of force crypto to have more intermediaries which again would create

intermediaries which again would create

intermediaries which again would create the setup that caused

the setup that caused

the setup that caused crypto I'm sorry say that again that

crypto I'm sorry say that again that

crypto I'm sorry say that again that defeats the purpose of crypto yeah

defeats the purpose of crypto yeah

defeats the purpose of crypto yeah according to what crypto people believe

according to what crypto people believe

according to what crypto people believe yeah but like I said those are kind of

yeah but like I said those are kind of

yeah but like I said those are kind of the hardcore people there's plenty of

the hardcore people there's plenty of

the hardcore people there's plenty of other people in crypto who are just they

other people in crypto who are just they

other people in crypto who are just they just want to buy their Dogecoin to have

just want to buy their Dogecoin to have

just want to buy their Dogecoin to have the price go up so how do we how do you

the price go up so how do we how do you

the price go up so how do we how do you think we get from a point where so for

think we get from a point where so for

think we get from a point where so for most people I think the predominant view

most people I think the predominant view

most people I think the predominant view of crypto is that it's it's an asset or

of crypto is that it's it's an asset or

of crypto is that it's it's an asset or a currency right you speculate how do

a currency right you speculate how do

a currency right you speculate how do you move from

you move from

you move from the general public sort of thinking

the general public sort of thinking

the general public sort of thinking about it in that way to some of what

about it in that way to some of what

about it in that way to some of what you're thinking about in terms of crypto

you're thinking about in terms of crypto

you're thinking about in terms of crypto writ large and the utility that will

writ large and the utility that will

writ large and the utility that will come from that right so that theorem is

come from that right so that theorem is

come from that right so that theorem is like a new world computer so how do you

like a new world computer so how do you

like a new world computer so how do you go from crypto just being like

go from crypto just being like

go from crypto just being like a store of value to

a store of value to

a store of value to something totally different

something totally different

something totally different yeah this is why so often people ask me

yeah this is why so often people ask me

yeah this is why so often people ask me um you know either like should I invest

um you know either like should I invest

um you know either like should I invest or how should I invest in and I always

or how should I invest in and I always

or how should I invest in and I always say no no no think of it this way

say no no no think of it this way

say no no no think of it this way don't think about just putting your

don't think about just putting your

don't think about just putting your money on something and passively waiting

money on something and passively waiting

money on something and passively waiting for it to go up think about your

for it to go up think about your

for it to go up think about your investment as being one of education so

investment as being one of education so

investment as being one of education so let's say you you know how you would be

let's say you you know how you would be

let's say you you know how you would be willing to spend like 100 bucks on a

willing to spend like 100 bucks on a

willing to spend like 100 bucks on a course about crypto instead you can take

course about crypto instead you can take

course about crypto instead you can take that 100 and you can say okay I'm going

that 100 and you can say okay I'm going

that 100 and you can say okay I'm going to learn how to make a transaction you

to learn how to make a transaction you

to learn how to make a transaction you know send money to like my friend in

know send money to like my friend in

know send money to like my friend in India or they could say

India or they could say

India or they could say um I'm going to use uh part of this

um I'm going to use uh part of this

um I'm going to use uh part of this money also to Mint an nft learn how to

money also to Mint an nft learn how to

money also to Mint an nft learn how to Mint an nft I'm going to buy an nft and

Mint an nft I'm going to buy an nft and

Mint an nft I'm going to buy an nft and then sell it I'm going to participate in

then sell it I'm going to participate in

then sell it I'm going to participate in a decentralized autonomous organization

a decentralized autonomous organization

a decentralized autonomous organization or this group of people who are kind of

or this group of people who are kind of

or this group of people who are kind of affiliated with a particular coin and

affiliated with a particular coin and

affiliated with a particular coin and vote on one of their proposals using my

vote on one of their proposals using my

vote on one of their proposals using my tokens or I'm going to you know use one

tokens or I'm going to you know use one

tokens or I'm going to you know use one of these D5 borrowing and lending

of these D5 borrowing and lending

of these D5 borrowing and lending protocols and then use that to like

protocols and then use that to like

protocols and then use that to like educate yourself on how to use this

educate yourself on how to use this

educate yourself on how to use this technology

technology

technology and yeah I agree with with you it's a

and yeah I agree with with you it's a

and yeah I agree with with you it's a big hurdle because it's a completely

big hurdle because it's a completely

big hurdle because it's a completely different Paradigm from what we're used

different Paradigm from what we're used

different Paradigm from what we're used to

to

to however already I feel like we're

however already I feel like we're

however already I feel like we're noticing that people are in their own

noticing that people are in their own

noticing that people are in their own way getting it when when they are really

way getting it when when they are really

way getting it when when they are really motivated and what's fascinating is this

motivated and what's fascinating is this

motivated and what's fascinating is this whole nft craze in the last few years

whole nft craze in the last few years

whole nft craze in the last few years this is the first time where items have

this is the first time where items have

this is the first time where items have been denominated in their in the native

been denominated in their in the native

been denominated in their in the native cryptocurrency so you know for the

cryptocurrency so you know for the

cryptocurrency so you know for the longest time like everyone would pay

longest time like everyone would pay

longest time like everyone would pay attention to the Bitcoin price in

attention to the Bitcoin price in

attention to the Bitcoin price in dollars to The Ether price in dollars

dollars to The Ether price in dollars

dollars to The Ether price in dollars right okay these nfts that have become

right okay these nfts that have become

right okay these nfts that have become very popular the price of them is

very popular the price of them is

very popular the price of them is denominated in eth or Saul which is

denominated in eth or Saul which is

denominated in eth or Saul which is Solana this other blockchain that kind

Solana this other blockchain that kind

Solana this other blockchain that kind of sort of competes with ethereum but

of sort of competes with ethereum but

of sort of competes with ethereum but it's a little bit different

it's a little bit different

it's a little bit different um they're not denominated in dollars so

um they're not denominated in dollars so

um they're not denominated in dollars so people are talking about the what they

people are talking about the what they

people are talking about the what they call the floor price meaning like the

call the floor price meaning like the

call the floor price meaning like the cheapest version of the NF team that's

cheapest version of the NF team that's

cheapest version of the NF team that's denominated in ether right and you yeah

denominated in ether right and you yeah

denominated in ether right and you yeah sorry and but here's the other thing is

sorry and but here's the other thing is

sorry and but here's the other thing is that those people they're learning how

that those people they're learning how

that those people they're learning how to use wallets because they want to own

to use wallets because they want to own

to use wallets because they want to own their nfts so again once they're

their nfts so again once they're

their nfts so again once they're motivated then they kind of you know

motivated then they kind of you know

motivated then they kind of you know have to learn I will say for myself I

have to learn I will say for myself I

have to learn I will say for myself I have to kind of learn by doing or I find

have to kind of learn by doing or I find

have to kind of learn by doing or I find this very hard to to to understand so

this very hard to to to understand so

this very hard to to to understand so um another question from one of the Ted

um another question from one of the Ted

um another question from one of the Ted members this is from Vanessa or a

members this is from Vanessa or a

members this is from Vanessa or a variation on on her question is

variation on on her question is

variation on on her question is um you know you're talking about

um you know you're talking about

um you know you're talking about exchanges right so do you envisage a

exchanges right so do you envisage a

exchanges right so do you envisage a world where we'll have sort of one

world where we'll have sort of one

world where we'll have sort of one centralized digital currency sort of and

centralized digital currency sort of and

centralized digital currency sort of and you're not comparing it to Fiat or is it

you're not comparing it to Fiat or is it

you're not comparing it to Fiat or is it that fit you know pounds euros dollars

that fit you know pounds euros dollars

that fit you know pounds euros dollars disappear and where it's Bitcoin to ease

disappear and where it's Bitcoin to ease

disappear and where it's Bitcoin to ease or Bitcoin to Solana and there's like 10

or Bitcoin to Solana and there's like 10

or Bitcoin to Solana and there's like 10 major digital currencies

major digital currencies

major digital currencies not really no I think it'll just be like

not really no I think it'll just be like

not really no I think it'll just be like the way we have email now but we also

the way we have email now but we also

the way we have email now but we also still have the Postal Service

still have the Postal Service

still have the Postal Service um it's it's just you know more options

um it's it's just you know more options

um it's it's just you know more options I mean like you know like if you look at

I mean like you know like if you look at

I mean like you know like if you look at yeah the stock exchange or whatever I

yeah the stock exchange or whatever I

yeah the stock exchange or whatever I mean there's just so many different

mean there's just so many different

mean there's just so many different kinds of financial assets and I think

kinds of financial assets and I think

kinds of financial assets and I think it's going to be the same like if I

it's going to be the same like if I

it's going to be the same like if I think about how the internet has changed

think about how the internet has changed

think about how the internet has changed my life

my life

my life you know back in uh I think was 1993

you know back in uh I think was 1993

you know back in uh I think was 1993 when I got my first email account

when I got my first email account

when I got my first email account um you know I first of all barely knew

um you know I first of all barely knew

um you know I first of all barely knew how to even check that

how to even check that

how to even check that um right but now I wake up I check my

um right but now I wake up I check my

um right but now I wake up I check my text messages my WhatsApp my like three

text messages my WhatsApp my like three

text messages my WhatsApp my like three different email accounts or four really

different email accounts or four really

different email accounts or four really um my signal my

um my signal my

um my signal my um telegram you know Instagram Twitter I

um telegram you know Instagram Twitter I

um telegram you know Instagram Twitter I have tons of Twitter DMs like I check

have tons of Twitter DMs like I check

have tons of Twitter DMs like I check all those and I think it's going to be

all those and I think it's going to be

all those and I think it's going to be the same way for financial transactions

the same way for financial transactions

the same way for financial transactions I think in the future we're gonna wake

I think in the future we're gonna wake

I think in the future we're gonna wake up and we're gonna be like oh you know

up and we're gonna be like oh you know

up and we're gonna be like oh you know um I guess this Dow you know passed this

um I guess this Dow you know passed this

um I guess this Dow you know passed this proposal that I voted in and oh also now

proposal that I voted in and oh also now

proposal that I voted in and oh also now you know someone has a bid on my nft or

you know someone has a bid on my nft or

you know someone has a bid on my nft or you know what I don't know I'm making it

you know what I don't know I'm making it

you know what I don't know I'm making it up because it's probably definitely not

up because it's probably definitely not

up because it's probably definitely not going to look like what I just said but

going to look like what I just said but

going to look like what I just said but what I'm saying is we will have a lot

what I'm saying is we will have a lot

what I'm saying is we will have a lot more things like that that will be

more things like that that will be

more things like that that will be Financial not just communication like

Financial not just communication like

Financial not just communication like you know our current Internet

you know our current Internet

you know our current Internet and for those who don't know um a dow is

and for those who don't know um a dow is

and for those who don't know um a dow is a decentralized autonomous organization

a decentralized autonomous organization

a decentralized autonomous organization correct yeah but basically can you

correct yeah but basically can you

correct yeah but basically can you explain that really briefly

explain that really briefly

explain that really briefly Yeah so basically it's a group of people

Yeah so basically it's a group of people

Yeah so basically it's a group of people who are kind of loosely bonded around

who are kind of loosely bonded around

who are kind of loosely bonded around this one coin that they all own and the

this one coin that they all own and the

this one coin that they all own and the organization has some kind of mission it

organization has some kind of mission it

organization has some kind of mission it can be anything you might have heard

can be anything you might have heard

can be anything you might have heard about Constitution now uh was that a

about Constitution now uh was that a

about Constitution now uh was that a year ago I literally did just this whole

year ago I literally did just this whole

year ago I literally did just this whole crypto world's so crazy but

crypto world's so crazy but

crypto world's so crazy but um whenever that was that spring up like

um whenever that was that spring up like

um whenever that was that spring up like kind of overnight you know is in the

kind of overnight you know is in the

kind of overnight you know is in the span of a week they had raised

span of a week they had raised

span of a week they had raised um I'm blanking I think it was like uh

um I'm blanking I think it was like uh

um I'm blanking I think it was like uh close to 50 million to bid on a copy of

close to 50 million to bid on a copy of

close to 50 million to bid on a copy of the Constitution that was being

the Constitution that was being

the Constitution that was being auctioned off at Sotheby's and I mean

auctioned off at Sotheby's and I mean

auctioned off at Sotheby's and I mean you cannot do that with like the normal

you cannot do that with like the normal

you cannot do that with like the normal banking system I don't know if you ever

banking system I don't know if you ever

banking system I don't know if you ever tried to send like you know like I I

tried to send like you know like I I

tried to send like you know like I I have you know my business checking and

have you know my business checking and

have you know my business checking and my personal checking sometimes sending

my personal checking sometimes sending

my personal checking sometimes sending money between my own two accounts it

money between my own two accounts it

money between my own two accounts it takes like a week

takes like a week

takes like a week so to raise 50 million dollars not about

so to raise 50 million dollars not about

so to raise 50 million dollars not about you can only do that with like yeah

you can only do that with like yeah

you can only do that with like yeah ether and stable coins and Bitcoin or

ether and stable coins and Bitcoin or

ether and stable coins and Bitcoin or whatever so

whatever so

whatever so um so anyway the point is so there's

um so anyway the point is so there's

um so anyway the point is so there's that kind of Dao you know but there are

that kind of Dao you know but there are

that kind of Dao you know but there are other kinds of dowels where like

other kinds of dowels where like

other kinds of dowels where like I don't know they they have like some

I don't know they they have like some

I don't know they they have like some nft project or there's other Dows where

nft project or there's other Dows where

nft project or there's other Dows where all they do is kind of manage these

all they do is kind of manage these

all they do is kind of manage these borrowing and lending protocols there's

borrowing and lending protocols there's

borrowing and lending protocols there's also these like mini Dows where they're

also these like mini Dows where they're

also these like mini Dows where they're kind of like little Financial investment

kind of like little Financial investment

kind of like little Financial investment clubs of just friends where

clubs of just friends where

clubs of just friends where um they you know have this little token

um they you know have this little token

um they you know have this little token that represents their membership but

that represents their membership but

that represents their membership but then maybe like Simone and I are in the

then maybe like Simone and I are in the

then maybe like Simone and I are in the same kind of friends investment club

same kind of friends investment club

same kind of friends investment club right so maybe I know all about nfts and

right so maybe I know all about nfts and

right so maybe I know all about nfts and I'm like really good at you know making

I'm like really good at you know making

I'm like really good at you know making money with nfts but she's really good at

money with nfts but she's really good at

money with nfts but she's really good at like doing defy you know trading or

like doing defy you know trading or

like doing defy you know trading or whatever so we agree that everybody in

whatever so we agree that everybody in

whatever so we agree that everybody in the club will benefit from the returns

the club will benefit from the returns

the club will benefit from the returns of everyone will share it all but like

of everyone will share it all but like

of everyone will share it all but like you know the group now benefits from my

you know the group now benefits from my

you know the group now benefits from my expertise and entities and her benefit

expertise and entities and her benefit

expertise and entities and her benefit and her expertise in defy

and her expertise in defy

and her expertise in defy um and so there's just all different

um and so there's just all different

um and so there's just all different kinds of downs so you mentioned um

kinds of downs so you mentioned um

kinds of downs so you mentioned um stable coins just then in there

stable coins just then in there

stable coins just then in there somewhere um can you just give a brief

somewhere um can you just give a brief

somewhere um can you just give a brief description for for the audience of what

description for for the audience of what

description for for the audience of what a stable coin is versus you know Bitcoin

a stable coin is versus you know Bitcoin

a stable coin is versus you know Bitcoin or eth yeah it's any coin whose value is

or eth yeah it's any coin whose value is

or eth yeah it's any coin whose value is pegged to some other existing assets

pegged to some other existing assets

pegged to some other existing assets such as uh in the case of like you know

such as uh in the case of like you know

such as uh in the case of like you know some huge percentage of stable coins the

some huge percentage of stable coins the

some huge percentage of stable coins the US dollar

US dollar

US dollar um so for the people the people who are

um so for the people the people who are

um so for the people the people who are sort of crypto curious let's call them

sort of crypto curious let's call them

sort of crypto curious let's call them um do you think now is a good time to to

um do you think now is a good time to to

um do you think now is a good time to to dive in and and if so sort of you know

dive in and and if so sort of you know

dive in and and if so sort of you know what's the most important thing to take

what's the most important thing to take

what's the most important thing to take into consideration and and and how would

into consideration and and and how would

into consideration and and and how would you do it

um I think it's a good time to dive in

um I think it's a good time to dive in

um I think it's a good time to dive in frankly because since there's been this

frankly because since there's been this

frankly because since there's been this crash it's a less speculative period and

crash it's a less speculative period and

crash it's a less speculative period and what happens is during the big manias a

what happens is during the big manias a

what happens is during the big manias a lot of people get their money stolen

lot of people get their money stolen

lot of people get their money stolen because all the Predators are are out

because all the Predators are are out

because all the Predators are are out there trying to steal people's coins

there trying to steal people's coins

there trying to steal people's coins when they're not thinking and they're

when they're not thinking and they're

when they're not thinking and they're they're just like I want to get in on

they're just like I want to get in on

they're just like I want to get in on this deal and make a lot of money so a

this deal and make a lot of money so a

this deal and make a lot of money so a lot of the uh the Fishers and um yeah

lot of the uh the Fishers and um yeah

lot of the uh the Fishers and um yeah the other people trying to hack your

the other people trying to hack your

the other people trying to hack your coins are out there not that they're not

coins are out there not that they're not

coins are out there not that they're not out there right now they are it's just

out there right now they are it's just

out there right now they are it's just it's not as bad

it's not as bad

it's not as bad um but to that end the number one thing

um but to that end the number one thing

um but to that end the number one thing I would say you should do at first is

I would say you should do at first is

I would say you should do at first is learn how to secure your own coins

learn how to secure your own coins

learn how to secure your own coins so

so

so um and and what I should say is it's not

um and and what I should say is it's not

um and and what I should say is it's not even like learning it's also deciding

even like learning it's also deciding

even like learning it's also deciding what works best for you

what works best for you

what works best for you because yes we have talked now about the

because yes we have talked now about the

because yes we have talked now about the pitfalls of keeping your coins on an

pitfalls of keeping your coins on an

pitfalls of keeping your coins on an exchange however

exchange however

exchange however you know I don't know about you but I

you know I don't know about you but I

you know I don't know about you but I lose things all the time and there are

lose things all the time and there are

lose things all the time and there are many many famous examples of people who

many many famous examples of people who

many many famous examples of people who they had some huge amount of money on a

they had some huge amount of money on a

they had some huge amount of money on a device that they were controlling the

device that they were controlling the

device that they were controlling the most famous of these was somebody who

most famous of these was somebody who

most famous of these was somebody who was featured in this New York Times

was featured in this New York Times

was featured in this New York Times article where he had hundreds of

article where he had hundreds of

article where he had hundreds of millions of dollars worth of bitcoin on

millions of dollars worth of bitcoin on

millions of dollars worth of bitcoin on some device and it was a special

some device and it was a special

some device and it was a special security device where it only gave him

security device where it only gave him

security device where it only gave him 10 tries to open it and

10 tries to open it and

10 tries to open it and um he was on his eighth attempt at the

um he was on his eighth attempt at the

um he was on his eighth attempt at the password and it wasn't opening it and so

password and it wasn't opening it and so

password and it wasn't opening it and so he was like sweating bullets because if

he was like sweating bullets because if

he was like sweating bullets because if he you know got to the 10th try and it

he you know got to the 10th try and it

he you know got to the 10th try and it didn't open the wallet then he would

didn't open the wallet then he would

didn't open the wallet then he would lose hundreds of millions of dollars

lose hundreds of millions of dollars

lose hundreds of millions of dollars worth of bitcoin so when you decide how

worth of bitcoin so when you decide how

worth of bitcoin so when you decide how you're going to secure your coins

you're going to secure your coins

you're going to secure your coins yes understand the pitfalls of putting

yes understand the pitfalls of putting

yes understand the pitfalls of putting it on an exchange but also understand

it on an exchange but also understand

it on an exchange but also understand the pitfalls of try to manage it

the pitfalls of try to manage it

the pitfalls of try to manage it yourself there are so many ways that can

yourself there are so many ways that can

yourself there are so many ways that can go wrong you can be fished of that money

go wrong you can be fished of that money

go wrong you can be fished of that money you can lose the device people have

you can lose the device people have

you can lose the device people have thrown them away

thrown them away

thrown them away um you can lose your forget your

um you can lose your forget your

um you can lose your forget your password or lose it I mean there's just

password or lose it I mean there's just

password or lose it I mean there's just so many ways this even go wrong so it

so many ways this even go wrong so it

so many ways this even go wrong so it all sounds it all sounds terrifying I

all sounds it all sounds terrifying I

all sounds it all sounds terrifying I mean I I think you know so you're

mean I I think you know so you're

mean I I think you know so you're basically saying I should move my coins

basically saying I should move my coins

basically saying I should move my coins out of coinbase but

out of coinbase but

out of coinbase but to set up a wallet but I can't lose a

to set up a wallet but I can't lose a

to set up a wallet but I can't lose a piece of paper with the 10 words on it

piece of paper with the 10 words on it

piece of paper with the 10 words on it that that I print out yeah however what

that that I print out yeah however what

that that I print out yeah however what I will say so earlier when I said I had

I will say so earlier when I said I had

I will say so earlier when I said I had someone on my uh premium offering who

someone on my uh premium offering who

someone on my uh premium offering who talked about how his wallet was uh

talked about how his wallet was uh

talked about how his wallet was uh seeing much greater adoption just the

seeing much greater adoption just the

seeing much greater adoption just the last few weeks the reason is that that

last few weeks the reason is that that

last few weeks the reason is that that wallet and there's all multiple like

wallet and there's all multiple like

wallet and there's all multiple like this I'm not gonna you know say this is

this I'm not gonna you know say this is

this I'm not gonna you know say this is the only one um but that one is called

the only one um but that one is called

the only one um but that one is called Zengo

Zengo

Zengo um there's some others which I'm I'm not

um there's some others which I'm I'm not

um there's some others which I'm I'm not fully you know I don't know what the

fully you know I don't know what the

fully you know I don't know what the fullest is but um they're basically

fullest is but um they're basically

fullest is but um they're basically called

called

called multi-party computational

multi-party computational

multi-party computational um yeah MPC just MPC uh self-hosted

um yeah MPC just MPC uh self-hosted

um yeah MPC just MPC uh self-hosted wallets and um the reason is they don't

wallets and um the reason is they don't

wallets and um the reason is they don't use things like your seed phrase it's

use things like your seed phrase it's

use things like your seed phrase it's not as easy to like lose

not as easy to like lose

not as easy to like lose um either you know the keys or get

um either you know the keys or get

um either you know the keys or get locked out essentially the way it works

locked out essentially the way it works

locked out essentially the way it works is it uses you know a biometric aspect

is it uses you know a biometric aspect

is it uses you know a biometric aspect um a magic link to your email uh just

um a magic link to your email uh just

um a magic link to your email uh just other other parts like making sure that

other other parts like making sure that

other other parts like making sure that you're actually an alive person rather

you're actually an alive person rather

you're actually an alive person rather than the hacker showing a photo to your

than the hacker showing a photo to your

than the hacker showing a photo to your device

device

device um they have different ways of like you

um they have different ways of like you

um they have different ways of like you know just having it not be uh you

know just having it not be uh you

know just having it not be uh you relying on yourself memorizing the the

relying on yourself memorizing the the

relying on yourself memorizing the the code you know the the um the seed phrase

code you know the the um the seed phrase

code you know the the um the seed phrase or like remembering what the password is

or like remembering what the password is

or like remembering what the password is or whatever so there are new innovations

or whatever so there are new innovations

or whatever so there are new innovations that make it a much more user-friendly

that make it a much more user-friendly

that make it a much more user-friendly experience and I imagine after this

experience and I imagine after this

experience and I imagine after this whole debacle they'll probably you know

whole debacle they'll probably you know

whole debacle they'll probably you know take off so so one of the keys in

take off so so one of the keys in

take off so so one of the keys in addition to to sort of just better

addition to to sort of just better

addition to to sort of just better education on this

education on this

education on this um is also better user experiences right

um is also better user experiences right

um is also better user experiences right now it is it's just

now it is it's just

now it is it's just yeah I mean you know I I haven't as a

yeah I mean you know I I haven't as a

yeah I mean you know I I haven't as a journalist I've been covering this for

journalist I've been covering this for

journalist I've been covering this for seven and a half years

seven and a half years

seven and a half years every single time I try to transact I am

every single time I try to transact I am

every single time I try to transact I am so confused I can barely understand

so confused I can barely understand

so confused I can barely understand what's going on you guys I like a few

what's going on you guys I like a few

what's going on you guys I like a few years ago I'm not joking you I lost like

years ago I'm not joking you I lost like

years ago I'm not joking you I lost like 500 worth of eth in the span of like 10

500 worth of eth in the span of like 10

500 worth of eth in the span of like 10 minutes it was terrible what happened

minutes it was terrible what happened

minutes it was terrible what happened was someone was squat so you can also

was someone was squat so you can also

was someone was squat so you can also like a type of nft in this world is a

like a type of nft in this world is a

like a type of nft in this world is a domain name so I was trying to get Laura

domain name so I was trying to get Laura

domain name so I was trying to get Laura shin.if

shin.if

shin.if somebody was squatting on it so I wanted

somebody was squatting on it so I wanted

somebody was squatting on it so I wanted to like bid to buy it from him or who or

to like bid to buy it from him or who or

to like bid to buy it from him or who or her or whoever and I per and I I didn't

her or whoever and I per and I I didn't

her or whoever and I per and I I didn't know I expected maybe they wanted a lot

know I expected maybe they wanted a lot

know I expected maybe they wanted a lot of money so I bought 500 worth of eat

of money so I bought 500 worth of eat

of money so I bought 500 worth of eat from coinbase okay

from coinbase okay

from coinbase okay the minute I get it into my wallet

the minute I get it into my wallet

the minute I get it into my wallet there's something going on with the

there's something going on with the

there's something going on with the wallet I cannot send the money I like

wallet I cannot send the money I like

wallet I cannot send the money I like can't do anything and I was like what's

can't do anything and I was like what's

can't do anything and I was like what's going on here

going on here

going on here I don't know there it's like a

I don't know there it's like a

I don't know there it's like a complicated thing but somehow they were

complicated thing but somehow they were

complicated thing but somehow they were like two wallets that were in that

like two wallets that were in that

like two wallets that were in that little browser extension and I sent the

little browser extension and I sent the

little browser extension and I sent the money from one to the other and I

money from one to the other and I

money from one to the other and I couldn't get it out after I'd sent it to

couldn't get it out after I'd sent it to

couldn't get it out after I'd sent it to the other one and so yeah I just I lost

the other one and so yeah I just I lost

the other one and so yeah I just I lost all that money and it happened in like

all that money and it happened in like

all that money and it happened in like 10 minutes and I was like forget I was

10 minutes and I was like forget I was

10 minutes and I was like forget I was like forget Laura shindari I did

like forget Laura shindari I did

like forget Laura shindari I did eventually get it

eventually get it

eventually get it long story but anyway I will say that

long story but anyway I will say that

long story but anyway I will say that this is not given me the confidence to

this is not given me the confidence to

this is not given me the confidence to jump back into all of this at all that's

jump back into all of this at all that's

jump back into all of this at all that's why you said just I think my crypto is

why you said just I think my crypto is

why you said just I think my crypto is going to fester in my coinbase accounts

going to fester in my coinbase accounts

going to fester in my coinbase accounts for some time

for some time

for some time um so so I do want to ask one one last

um so so I do want to ask one one last

um so so I do want to ask one one last question because we're gonna we're

question because we're gonna we're

question because we're gonna we're coming up to time now so um

coming up to time now so um

coming up to time now so um you did a tedx talk in 2018

you did a tedx talk in 2018

you did a tedx talk in 2018 um on Krypton it was called how crypto

um on Krypton it was called how crypto

um on Krypton it was called how crypto could allow people to be their own boss

could allow people to be their own boss

could allow people to be their own boss if you were going to give a tedx talk on

if you were going to give a tedx talk on

if you were going to give a tedx talk on crypto

crypto

crypto in 20 in in the the waning months of

in 20 in in the the waning months of

in 20 in in the the waning months of 2022

2022

2022 what would it be

um hmm

um hmm

um hmm you know interestingly that topic works

you know interestingly that topic works

you know interestingly that topic works I featured somebody on my show earlier

I featured somebody on my show earlier

I featured somebody on my show earlier this year who lives the life that I

this year who lives the life that I

this year who lives the life that I talked about in that talk which was

talked about in that talk which was

talked about in that talk which was super funny

super funny

super funny um and I I I have like never looked at

um and I I I have like never looked at

um and I I I have like never looked at that talk except one time at some point

that talk except one time at some point

that talk except one time at some point in the last year I did look at it and

in the last year I did look at it and

in the last year I did look at it and there was a comment being like Oh my God

there was a comment being like Oh my God

there was a comment being like Oh my God how was she talking about all this four

how was she talking about all this four

how was she talking about all this four years ago and I was like oh yeah that's

years ago and I was like oh yeah that's

years ago and I was like oh yeah that's interesting because now there is a trend

interesting because now there is a trend

interesting because now there is a trend of people like doing all this and what I

of people like doing all this and what I

of people like doing all this and what I mean by that is this person that I

mean by that is this person that I

mean by that is this person that I feature on my show she's a recent grad

feature on my show she's a recent grad

feature on my show she's a recent grad and

and

and um you know she got into crypto when she

um you know she got into crypto when she

um you know she got into crypto when she was in college and so she's like oh I'm

was in college and so she's like oh I'm

was in college and so she's like oh I'm going to become a crypto founder so she

going to become a crypto founder so she

going to become a crypto founder so she launched this startup

launched this startup

launched this startup but as she got more and more into crypto

but as she got more and more into crypto

but as she got more and more into crypto she's like wait

she's like wait

she's like wait I started with centralized like that's

I started with centralized like that's

I started with centralized like that's not what crypto is about so she kind of

not what crypto is about so she kind of

not what crypto is about so she kind of stepped back from the the um the startup

stepped back from the the um the startup

stepped back from the the um the startup and now she's just like a dow freelancer

and now she's just like a dow freelancer

and now she's just like a dow freelancer basically and it was fascinating she

basically and it was fascinating she

basically and it was fascinating she gets paid from these three different

gets paid from these three different

gets paid from these three different doubts I don't know about now that I did

doubts I don't know about now that I did

doubts I don't know about now that I did this interview in the winter last last

this interview in the winter last last

this interview in the winter last last year

year

year um but they're they all pay her

um but they're they all pay her

um but they're they all pay her differently you know one it's more like

differently you know one it's more like

differently you know one it's more like a regular W-2 situation another one is a

a regular W-2 situation another one is a

a regular W-2 situation another one is a 1099 and then the last one she gets paid

1099 and then the last one she gets paid

1099 and then the last one she gets paid in their tokens and the other funny

in their tokens and the other funny

in their tokens and the other funny thing is because it's this Dao the way

thing is because it's this Dao the way

thing is because it's this Dao the way it works is all the community members

it works is all the community members

it works is all the community members vote on how much they think that person

vote on how much they think that person

vote on how much they think that person should be paid essentially which is

should be paid essentially which is

should be paid essentially which is fascinating and so um the amount of

fascinating and so um the amount of

fascinating and so um the amount of tokens that you get is sort of like gets

tokens that you get is sort of like gets

tokens that you get is sort of like gets every month is determined on like you

every month is determined on like you

every month is determined on like you know she has these interactions with

know she has these interactions with

know she has these interactions with people every month and then at the end

people every month and then at the end

people every month and then at the end they're like oh I think you know she

they're like oh I think you know she

they're like oh I think you know she contributed this much or that much and

contributed this much or that much and

contributed this much or that much and then that's how much she gets in tokens

then that's how much she gets in tokens

then that's how much she gets in tokens so so so

so so so

so so so um another member is asking

um another member is asking

um another member is asking um this is Bob you know how does this

um this is Bob you know how does this

um this is Bob you know how does this make the world better so is it that it

make the world better so is it that it

make the world better so is it that it it gives us theoretically more control

it gives us theoretically more control

it gives us theoretically more control over our lives

over our lives

over our lives yeah yeah a lot of people talk about how

yeah yeah a lot of people talk about how

yeah yeah a lot of people talk about how you can also use this technology to

you can also use this technology to

you can also use this technology to um just it it subverts the whole typical

um just it it subverts the whole typical

um just it it subverts the whole typical social media model where the social

social media model where the social

social media model where the social media platform has all your data and

media platform has all your data and

media platform has all your data and then they sell it to advertisers and so

then they sell it to advertisers and so

then they sell it to advertisers and so you're you know as you've probably heard

you're you know as you've probably heard

you're you know as you've probably heard you are the product but

you are the product but

you are the product but um you can use this to own your own data

um you can use this to own your own data

um you can use this to own your own data and then you can yeah be more in control

and then you can yeah be more in control

and then you can yeah be more in control of so we are still the product but we

of so we are still the product but we

of so we are still the product but we own our own data in a truly

own our own data in a truly

own our own data in a truly decentralized world

decentralized world

decentralized world we are technically still the product but

we are technically still the product but

we are technically still the product but because we own the data we are better

because we own the data we are better

because we own the data we are better off for it no no then you well kind of

off for it no no then you well kind of

off for it no no then you well kind of but yeah you would be the one in control

but yeah you would be the one in control

but yeah you would be the one in control of selling it like if you decide to sell

of selling it like if you decide to sell

of selling it like if you decide to sell it somewhere then you are the one making

it somewhere then you are the one making

it somewhere then you are the one making the money not not like the platform

the money not not like the platform

the money not not like the platform like you you decide yet to sell the

like you you decide yet to sell the

like you you decide yet to sell the money or to sell the data and then you

money or to sell the data and then you

money or to sell the data and then you earn that money

earn that money

earn that money right okay unfortunately we have run out

right okay unfortunately we have run out

right okay unfortunately we have run out of time

of time

of time um so uh I want to thank everybody for

um so uh I want to thank everybody for

um so uh I want to thank everybody for engaging and sending in great questions

engaging and sending in great questions

engaging and sending in great questions um you can all follow Laura on Twitter

um you can all follow Laura on Twitter

um you can all follow Laura on Twitter at Laura Shin

at Laura Shin

at Laura Shin um listen to her podcast I would

um listen to her podcast I would

um listen to her podcast I would definitely read the book um the

definitely read the book um the

definitely read the book um the cryptopians it is a lot of fun I read it

cryptopians it is a lot of fun I read it

cryptopians it is a lot of fun I read it and I was really surprised at how much I

and I was really surprised at how much I

and I was really surprised at how much I enjoyed it actually

enjoyed it actually

enjoyed it actually um so Laura I know that everything

um so Laura I know that everything

um so Laura I know that everything that's going on right now is keeping you

that's going on right now is keeping you

that's going on right now is keeping you very very busy um but any final words

very very busy um but any final words

very very busy um but any final words what's next for you a new book something

what's next for you a new book something

what's next for you a new book something like that maybe

like that maybe

like that maybe yeah I mentioned the razzlecon I think

yeah I mentioned the razzlecon I think

yeah I mentioned the razzlecon I think did I mention that yeah

did I mention that yeah

did I mention that yeah um so I will be coming out with a

um so I will be coming out with a

um so I will be coming out with a narrative podcast on that and a book and

narrative podcast on that and a book and

narrative podcast on that and a book and I will do something with the FDX thing

I will do something with the FDX thing

I will do something with the FDX thing we'll see I'm not sure yet what that is

we'll see I'm not sure yet what that is

we'll see I'm not sure yet what that is but otherwise check out my podcast

but otherwise check out my podcast

but otherwise check out my podcast Unchained we also put out a daily

Unchained we also put out a daily

Unchained we also put out a daily newsletter and a Weekly Newsletter and

newsletter and a Weekly Newsletter and

newsletter and a Weekly Newsletter and you know we're on YouTube and Twitter

you know we're on YouTube and Twitter

you know we're on YouTube and Twitter and everywhere so yeah just join us

and everywhere so yeah just join us

and everywhere so yeah just join us great thank you so much Laura this has

great thank you so much Laura this has

great thank you so much Laura this has been a lot of fun

been a lot of fun

been a lot of fun um it's really great thank you foreign

um it's really great thank you foreign

um it's really great thank you foreign [Music]

[Music]