How to pronounce "panoply"

reid hastings what did you like to get

reid hastings what did you like to get

reid hastings what did you like to get to speak with you

to speak with you

to speak with you oh it's the treat to be here chris uh

oh it's the treat to be here chris uh

oh it's the treat to be here chris uh wish you were in better times we'll make

wish you were in better times we'll make

wish you were in better times we'll make the best of it

the best of it

the best of it uh but we've been working on the book

uh but we've been working on the book

uh but we've been working on the book for three years so it's great to

for three years so it's great to

for three years so it's great to have a chance to talk it through um

have a chance to talk it through um

have a chance to talk it through um yes so you've come out with a very

yes so you've come out with a very

yes so you've come out with a very striking book and we're going to

striking book and we're going to

striking book and we're going to dive into it before we go there um i

dive into it before we go there um i

dive into it before we go there um i just

just

just i want to check in with you first of all

i want to check in with you first of all

i want to check in with you first of all about just how

about just how

about just how netflix has done during the pandemic

netflix has done during the pandemic

netflix has done during the pandemic is it everyone assumes i think that it's

is it everyone assumes i think that it's

is it everyone assumes i think that it's been

been

been a time of massive success for you

a time of massive success for you

a time of massive success for you everyone's suddenly got all this time to

everyone's suddenly got all this time to

everyone's suddenly got all this time to watch your content you know during the

watch your content you know during the

watch your content you know during the first half of the year we did grow from

first half of the year we did grow from

first half of the year we did grow from 170 million roughly to 195 million

170 million roughly to 195 million

170 million roughly to 195 million so you know it's good growth like amazon

so you know it's good growth like amazon

so you know it's good growth like amazon we're busy

we're busy

we're busy and we're super proud just to be part of

and we're super proud just to be part of

and we're super proud just to be part of people's escape and to be able to give

people's escape and to be able to give

people's escape and to be able to give them a little bit of pleasure

them a little bit of pleasure

them a little bit of pleasure in these very difficult times where

in these very difficult times where

in these very difficult times where people are stuck at home

people are stuck at home

people are stuck at home and beyond the growth in subscribers

and beyond the growth in subscribers

and beyond the growth in subscribers what's been the growth

what's been the growth

what's been the growth in actual hours viewed

in actual hours viewed

in actual hours viewed oh pretty similar i mean the first two

oh pretty similar i mean the first two

oh pretty similar i mean the first two weeks there was a big shock factor where

weeks there was a big shock factor where

weeks there was a big shock factor where nobody left the house at all i think now

nobody left the house at all i think now

nobody left the house at all i think now even though people are quarantined

even though people are quarantined

even though people are quarantined they're

they're

they're you know living more full lives we've

you know living more full lives we've

you know living more full lives we've got sports that's on a little bit so

got sports that's on a little bit so

got sports that's on a little bit so pretty normalized now

pretty normalized now

pretty normalized now i mean has there been any concern that

i mean has there been any concern that

i mean has there been any concern that because it's so hard to produce content

because it's so hard to produce content

because it's so hard to produce content right now that actually

right now that actually

right now that actually somehow people would exhaust a lot of

somehow people would exhaust a lot of

somehow people would exhaust a lot of the content that's right for them on

the content that's right for them on

the content that's right for them on netflix and that you're going to run

netflix and that you're going to run

netflix and that you're going to run into a big problem in a few months time

into a big problem in a few months time

into a big problem in a few months time from just lack of content you know we'll

from just lack of content you know we'll

from just lack of content you know we'll have

have

have more original programming this year than

more original programming this year than

more original programming this year than we did last year

we did last year

we did last year and we'll have more next year than we

and we'll have more next year than we

and we'll have more next year than we did this year

did this year

did this year and the key there is our international

and the key there is our international

and the key there is our international growth and expansion because in europe

growth and expansion because in europe

growth and expansion because in europe right now we're able to produce

right now we're able to produce

right now we're able to produce in canada we're able to produce in

in canada we're able to produce in

in canada we're able to produce in australia we're able to produce

australia we're able to produce

australia we're able to produce so we're very diversified and that's

so we're very diversified and that's

so we're very diversified and that's helping

helping

helping reid tell me a bit more about you before

reid tell me a bit more about you before

reid tell me a bit more about you before you founded co-founded netflix

you founded co-founded netflix

you founded co-founded netflix um what what was the story before then

um what what was the story before then

um what what was the story before then uh unremarkable kid

went to college and found i really loved

went to college and found i really loved

went to college and found i really loved mathematics

mathematics

mathematics but i didn't really want to be a

but i didn't really want to be a

but i didn't really want to be a professor so i became a math teacher

professor so i became a math teacher

professor so i became a math teacher in the us peace corps loved that super

in the us peace corps loved that super

in the us peace corps loved that super rural part of southern africa

rural part of southern africa

rural part of southern africa came back and the lucky break of my life

came back and the lucky break of my life

came back and the lucky break of my life was getting in a stanford grad school

was getting in a stanford grad school

was getting in a stanford grad school in a.i uh 30 years ago

in a.i uh 30 years ago

in a.i uh 30 years ago and it was a very different ai than

and it was a very different ai than

and it was a very different ai than today but it set off

today but it set off

today but it set off uh just a lifelong curiosity about

uh just a lifelong curiosity about

uh just a lifelong curiosity about humans technology how it all comes

humans technology how it all comes

humans technology how it all comes together

together

together then i got super lucky again and created

then i got super lucky again and created

then i got super lucky again and created a very technical software company in the

a very technical software company in the

a very technical software company in the 90s that

90s that

90s that did well and that was my evolution from

did well and that was my evolution from

did well and that was my evolution from engineer to ceo i had never managed a

engineer to ceo i had never managed a

engineer to ceo i had never managed a person

person

person at all and then suddenly i was ceo of

at all and then suddenly i was ceo of

at all and then suddenly i was ceo of this company because i had the first

this company because i had the first

this company because i had the first idea

idea

idea that company doubled every year for

that company doubled every year for

that company doubled every year for six seven years morgan stanley took us

six seven years morgan stanley took us

six seven years morgan stanley took us public in 1995.

public in 1995.

public in 1995. it was a big deal at the time but i was

it was a big deal at the time but i was

it was a big deal at the time but i was not

not

not a very good ceo good product person so

a very good ceo good product person so

a very good ceo good product person so we kept growing but as a lead are

we kept growing but as a lead are

we kept growing but as a lead are pretty rough and netflix for me

pretty rough and netflix for me

pretty rough and netflix for me has been redemption it's been a chance

has been redemption it's been a chance

has been redemption it's been a chance to really refine and understand

to really refine and understand

to really refine and understand and reflect on leadership and learn so

and reflect on leadership and learn so

and reflect on leadership and learn so much from

much from

much from all the people that have written books

all the people that have written books

all the people that have written books before now

before now

before now and this book no rules rules is sort of

and this book no rules rules is sort of

and this book no rules rules is sort of my contribution

my contribution

my contribution back to the system that i've learned so

back to the system that i've learned so

back to the system that i've learned so much from

much from

much from which is other people writing books well

which is other people writing books well

which is other people writing books well certainly

certainly

certainly netflix has been amazing to look at as

netflix has been amazing to look at as

netflix has been amazing to look at as an outsider it's been a story

an outsider it's been a story

an outsider it's been a story of these radical shifts

of these radical shifts

of these radical shifts in strategy every few years it seemed

in strategy every few years it seemed

in strategy every few years it seemed like

like

like um really bold um occasionally almost

um really bold um occasionally almost

um really bold um occasionally almost reckless there was there was a switch

reckless there was there was a switch

reckless there was there was a switch from being a male

from being a male

from being a male you know movies delivered on dvd and

you know movies delivered on dvd and

you know movies delivered on dvd and returned

returned

returned to streaming um which um

to streaming um which um

to streaming um which um was a little awkward in how it happened

was a little awkward in how it happened

was a little awkward in how it happened but was so important

but was so important

but was so important and and um you know key to your future

and and um you know key to your future

and and um you know key to your future but then even

but then even

but then even i think an even more surprising shift

i think an even more surprising shift

i think an even more surprising shift for me

for me

for me was um i guess a little more than seven

was um i guess a little more than seven

was um i guess a little more than seven years ago

years ago

years ago when suddenly you started producing your

when suddenly you started producing your

when suddenly you started producing your own content

own content

own content like house of cards when that deal was

like house of cards when that deal was

like house of cards when that deal was announced i think a lot of people

announced i think a lot of people

announced i think a lot of people said wait a second this is never

said wait a second this is never

said wait a second this is never going to work these guys are nerdy

going to work these guys are nerdy

going to work these guys are nerdy internet guys you know just doing a fine

internet guys you know just doing a fine

internet guys you know just doing a fine distribution service licensing other

distribution service licensing other

distribution service licensing other people's content but i mean

people's content but i mean

people's content but i mean this this is this is craziness this is

this this is this is craziness this is

this this is this is craziness this is hubris

hubris

hubris trying to create your own content

trying to create your own content

trying to create your own content and then wait a second actually it

and then wait a second actually it

and then wait a second actually it actually worked

actually worked

actually worked and and the way i almost read your book

and and the way i almost read your book

and and the way i almost read your book is is to say

is is to say

is is to say um yeah exactly there was there was

um yeah exactly there was there was

um yeah exactly there was there was always more to this company

always more to this company

always more to this company than um sort of technical skills

than um sort of technical skills

than um sort of technical skills there was this obsession with with uh

there was this obsession with with uh

there was this obsession with with uh with

with

with empowering innovation and it's i'm sure

empowering innovation and it's i'm sure

empowering innovation and it's i'm sure you would argue that it was

you would argue that it was

you would argue that it was fundamentally

fundamentally

fundamentally um that which allowed things like the

um that which allowed things like the

um that which allowed things like the whole shift to

whole shift to

whole shift to house of cards happen is that is that is

house of cards happen is that is that is

house of cards happen is that is that is that fair that you you credit

that fair that you you credit

that fair that you you credit this individual story about that shift

this individual story about that shift

this individual story about that shift but at heart there was this

but at heart there was this

but at heart there was this this culture of innovation

this culture of innovation

this culture of innovation and excellence is that a fair summary

and excellence is that a fair summary

and excellence is that a fair summary yeah we do think of it as the culture

yeah we do think of it as the culture

yeah we do think of it as the culture has allowed us to um you know create

has allowed us to um you know create

has allowed us to um you know create this business initially with

this business initially with

this business initially with dvd by mail and you know when we went

dvd by mail and you know when we went

dvd by mail and you know when we went public 20 years ago

public 20 years ago

public 20 years ago we were about 50 million in revenue

we were about 50 million in revenue

we were about 50 million in revenue blockbuster was over five billion so a

blockbuster was over five billion so a

blockbuster was over five billion so a hundred times larger than us

hundred times larger than us

hundred times larger than us um and that was a heck of a battle for

um and that was a heck of a battle for

um and that was a heck of a battle for six seven years

six seven years

six seven years uh because you know they were a good

uh because you know they were a good

uh because you know they were a good firm they weren't a bad firm at all

firm they weren't a bad firm at all

firm they weren't a bad firm at all um and then to figure out streaming you

um and then to figure out streaming you

um and then to figure out streaming you know from dvd

know from dvd

know from dvd and then to figure out original content

and then to figure out original content

and then to figure out original content and

and

and to be able to go global it's a lot of

to be able to go global it's a lot of

to be able to go global it's a lot of change in in 20 years

change in in 20 years

change in in 20 years and at root we do think it's the culture

and at root we do think it's the culture

and at root we do think it's the culture that really

that really

that really enables that kind of innovation well

enables that kind of innovation well

enables that kind of innovation well your book starts with a

your book starts with a

your book starts with a quite an entertaining story of how you

quite an entertaining story of how you

quite an entertaining story of how you tried to sell yourselves to

tried to sell yourselves to

tried to sell yourselves to blockbuster for 50 million dollars back

blockbuster for 50 million dollars back

blockbuster for 50 million dollars back in the

in the

in the way back in the early days and they kind

way back in the early days and they kind

way back in the early days and they kind of laughed and turned you down

of laughed and turned you down

of laughed and turned you down um and um would probably take a

um and um would probably take a

um and um would probably take a different decision now

different decision now

different decision now where they to have the choice again but

where they to have the choice again but

where they to have the choice again but reid someone could say that that story

reid someone could say that that story

reid someone could say that that story of your

of your

of your conquering blockbuster isn't necessarily

conquering blockbuster isn't necessarily

conquering blockbuster isn't necessarily a story about

a story about

a story about a superior culture it could easily be

a superior culture it could easily be

a superior culture it could easily be explained by just

explained by just

explained by just you know it's another internet story you

you know it's another internet story you

you know it's another internet story you had a fundamentally

had a fundamentally

had a fundamentally better business model for the era

better business model for the era

better business model for the era distributing

distributing

distributing videos over the internet at whatever a

videos over the internet at whatever a

videos over the internet at whatever a few cents or less

few cents or less

few cents or less per to deliver a movie is just

per to deliver a movie is just

per to deliver a movie is just fundamentally a better idea than making

fundamentally a better idea than making

fundamentally a better idea than making people

people

people walk to a store pay huge late fees when

walk to a store pay huge late fees when

walk to a store pay huge late fees when they don't physically return the actual

they don't physically return the actual

they don't physically return the actual product of course the convenience of

product of course the convenience of

product of course the convenience of online streaming

online streaming

online streaming is what was ultimately going to win yeah

is what was ultimately going to win yeah

is what was ultimately going to win yeah i agree with you we've seen that story

i agree with you we've seen that story

i agree with you we've seen that story of internet company against incumbent

of internet company against incumbent

of internet company against incumbent many times

many times

many times um and so i hear you that that's not

um and so i hear you that that's not

um and so i hear you that that's not that you is great but it's not that

that you is great but it's not that

that you is great but it's not that unique

unique

unique but then the unique part is not getting

but then the unique part is not getting

but then the unique part is not getting stuck in that but then pivoting that

stuck in that but then pivoting that

stuck in that but then pivoting that business

business

business so so much right and the fact that

so so much right and the fact that

so so much right and the fact that you've successfully done that

you've successfully done that

you've successfully done that several times does give a lot of

several times does give a lot of

several times does give a lot of credence to your

credence to your

credence to your belief that there is something special

belief that there is something special

belief that there is something special in the waters over there

in the waters over there

in the waters over there so talk to me about what some of that

so talk to me about what some of that

so talk to me about what some of that specialness

specialness

specialness is um i see in the book through

is um i see in the book through

is um i see in the book through basically

basically

basically three things repeated again and again

three things repeated again and again

three things repeated again and again and

and

and they almost say feed each other to the

they almost say feed each other to the

they almost say feed each other to the point where you actually

point where you actually

point where you actually the way you the way you've structured

the way you the way you've structured

the way you the way you've structured this book they there's a cycle of three

this book they there's a cycle of three

this book they there's a cycle of three that's repeated each time of kind of

that's repeated each time of kind of

that's repeated each time of kind of you know level one level two level three

you know level one level two level three

you know level one level two level three of three different things what are

of three different things what are

of three different things what are those three different things i mean

those three different things i mean

those three different things i mean start start

start start

start start with this notion of talent density

with this notion of talent density

with this notion of talent density i think you call it what is that well if

i think you call it what is that well if

i think you call it what is that well if you have the

you have the

you have the right people together amazing things can

right people together amazing things can

right people together amazing things can happen

happen

happen i think everybody knows that we're just

i think everybody knows that we're just

i think everybody knows that we're just more

more

more clear that we're willing to pay a price

clear that we're willing to pay a price

clear that we're willing to pay a price to achieve that so everybody tries to

to achieve that so everybody tries to

to achieve that so everybody tries to hire well there's no real

hire well there's no real

hire well there's no real difference in everyone's ambition in

difference in everyone's ambition in

difference in everyone's ambition in that direction

that direction

that direction what's different about netflix is the

what's different about netflix is the

what's different about netflix is the keeper tests

keeper tests

keeper tests and what we say is for managers is

and what we say is for managers is

and what we say is for managers is would their people if they were leaving

would their people if they were leaving

would their people if they were leaving to go to another company would we try to

to go to another company would we try to

to go to another company would we try to change their mind to keep them

change their mind to keep them

change their mind to keep them we would fight to keep them and if we

we would fight to keep them and if we

we would fight to keep them and if we fight to keep them great

fight to keep them great

fight to keep them great if there's someone that you wouldn't

if there's someone that you wouldn't

if there's someone that you wouldn't fight to keep

fight to keep

fight to keep we say give them a generous severance

we say give them a generous severance

we say give them a generous severance package four to six months of

package four to six months of

package four to six months of compensation

compensation

compensation now and let them go find a place that's

now and let them go find a place that's

now and let them go find a place that's a better match

a better match

a better match and let us find a great new talent

and let us find a great new talent

and let us find a great new talent that may be one of those great people

that may be one of those great people

that may be one of those great people and when you find that great talent you

and when you find that great talent you

and when you find that great talent you are willing to pay

are willing to pay

are willing to pay the absolute top of market price to get

the absolute top of market price to get

the absolute top of market price to get them

them

them yeah i mean again the economic insight

yeah i mean again the economic insight

yeah i mean again the economic insight is the best people

is the best people

is the best people perform 10 or 100 times better than the

perform 10 or 100 times better than the

perform 10 or 100 times better than the typical

typical

typical and so there's a big premium in our

and so there's a big premium in our

and so there's a big premium in our business

business

business to getting the best people even if it

to getting the best people even if it

to getting the best people even if it costs you twice as much

costs you twice as much

costs you twice as much because you've got people who are many

because you've got people who are many

because you've got people who are many times

times

times more effective and that's an aspect of

more effective and that's an aspect of

more effective and that's an aspect of creative work

creative work

creative work generally the best authors the best

generally the best authors the best

generally the best authors the best software writers the best actors

software writers the best actors

software writers the best actors you know it's across many industries

you know it's across many industries

you know it's across many industries that are creative

that are creative

that are creative so talk a bit more about that because

so talk a bit more about that because

so talk a bit more about that because you distinguish in the book between

you distinguish in the book between

you distinguish in the book between creative roles and operational roles

creative roles and operational roles

creative roles and operational roles the advice you're giving here doesn't

the advice you're giving here doesn't

the advice you're giving here doesn't necessarily apply in the same way

necessarily apply in the same way

necessarily apply in the same way to operational roles that you call it

to operational roles that you call it

to operational roles that you call it sort of more routine work

sort of more routine work

sort of more routine work that that there will just be less uh

that that there will just be less uh

that that there will just be less uh variance on what a super talented or

variance on what a super talented or

variance on what a super talented or committed person could do versus a less

committed person could do versus a less

committed person could do versus a less committed big picture um

committed big picture um

committed big picture um you know we've had 300 years of the

you know we've had 300 years of the

you know we've had 300 years of the factory driving our economy and economic

factory driving our economy and economic

factory driving our economy and economic growth and prosperity and wealth

growth and prosperity and wealth

growth and prosperity and wealth so it's natural that the paradigm of the

so it's natural that the paradigm of the

so it's natural that the paradigm of the factory

factory

factory the top boss the line worker who you

the top boss the line worker who you

the top boss the line worker who you know follows the rules

know follows the rules

know follows the rules that that has a lot of influence in our

that that has a lot of influence in our

that that has a lot of influence in our culture

culture

culture and the other big model is the family

and the other big model is the family

and the other big model is the family and you've got family firms

and you've got family firms

and you've got family firms and what we're trying to say is those

and what we're trying to say is those

and what we're trying to say is those are good for some things

are good for some things

are good for some things but for creative work there's a

but for creative work there's a

but for creative work there's a different model

different model

different model in a factory you control people you

in a factory you control people you

in a factory you control people you supervise

supervise

supervise them but in creative work you want to

them but in creative work you want to

them but in creative work you want to inspire them

inspire them

inspire them you want to excite them and that's

you want to excite them and that's

you want to excite them and that's completely different

completely different

completely different and yet many people still run creative

and yet many people still run creative

and yet many people still run creative firms

firms

firms almost as if they wanted to be a factory

almost as if they wanted to be a factory

almost as if they wanted to be a factory i know

i know

i know because i did it in our first company in

because i did it in our first company in

because i did it in our first company in pure software

pure software

pure software every time something went wrong i would

every time something went wrong i would

every time something went wrong i would put a process in place

put a process in place

put a process in place to try to make sure that thing didn't go

to try to make sure that thing didn't go

to try to make sure that thing didn't go wrong again

wrong again

wrong again and that works in the short term but it

and that works in the short term but it

and that works in the short term but it makes you very rigid

makes you very rigid

makes you very rigid and then the market shifted in that case

and then the market shifted in that case

and then the market shifted in that case it was c plus plus to java but

it was c plus plus to java but

it was c plus plus to java but they all shift in some way and we were

they all shift in some way and we were

they all shift in some way and we were unable to adapt

unable to adapt

unable to adapt partially because we had all these

partially because we had all these

partially because we had all these processes

processes

processes and we had people who wanted to follow

and we had people who wanted to follow

and we had people who wanted to follow them

them

them so this is where the subtlety is

so this is where the subtlety is

so this is where the subtlety is you really want to focus on flexibility

you really want to focus on flexibility

you really want to focus on flexibility rather than efficiency and there's so

rather than efficiency and there's so

rather than efficiency and there's so much literature from manufacturing

much literature from manufacturing

much literature from manufacturing about setting objectives holding people

about setting objectives holding people

about setting objectives holding people accountable

accountable

accountable efficiency and all of that stuff works

efficiency and all of that stuff works

efficiency and all of that stuff works for factories

for factories

for factories and there's a better way for creative

and there's a better way for creative

and there's a better way for creative work which is

work which is

work which is focusing on inspiration so talk a bit

focusing on inspiration so talk a bit

focusing on inspiration so talk a bit more because it's

more because it's

more because it's it's certainly um i think it's known

it's certainly um i think it's known

it's certainly um i think it's known that in something like

that in something like

that in something like software writing that a brilliant

software writing that a brilliant

software writing that a brilliant programmer really can

programmer really can

programmer really can do perform 100 times better than an

do perform 100 times better than an

do perform 100 times better than an average programmer

average programmer

average programmer and that you can have circumstances

and that you can have circumstances

and that you can have circumstances where a single programmer can

where a single programmer can

where a single programmer can could outperform a team of literally a

could outperform a team of literally a

could outperform a team of literally a hundred other programmers

hundred other programmers

hundred other programmers um but does that does that apply in

um but does that does that apply in

um but does that does that apply in other

other

other creative areas like when when you when

creative areas like when when you when

creative areas like when when you when you

you

you talk about the um exponential

talk about the um exponential

talk about the um exponential skills of a super talented creative

skills of a super talented creative

skills of a super talented creative person

person

person is that does that mean that you

is that does that mean that you

is that does that mean that you literally do you literally can hire far

literally do you literally can hire far

literally do you literally can hire far fewer people or is it just that the the

fewer people or is it just that the the

fewer people or is it just that the the output of their work will actually be

output of their work will actually be

output of their work will actually be more impressive

more impressive

more impressive you can hire fewer people so it would be

you can hire fewer people so it would be

you can hire fewer people so it would be better

better

better in highly creative work to have five

in highly creative work to have five

in highly creative work to have five people that were incredibly talented

people that were incredibly talented

people that were incredibly talented working on some given project and that

working on some given project and that

working on some given project and that could be making a movie

could be making a movie

could be making a movie it could be a making marketing campaign

it could be a making marketing campaign

it could be a making marketing campaign could be

could be

could be winning an election or it could be uh

winning an election or it could be uh

winning an election or it could be uh you know writing software then 10 or 100

you know writing software then 10 or 100

you know writing software then 10 or 100 people

people

people who were less good so that's why

who were less good so that's why

who were less good so that's why we talk about it as uh talent density

we talk about it as uh talent density

we talk about it as uh talent density getting super talented people and they

getting super talented people and they

getting super talented people and they thrive on each other

thrive on each other

thrive on each other and then they thrive on freedom um which

and then they thrive on freedom um which

and then they thrive on freedom um which is the next part uh

is the next part uh

is the next part uh of what we work on let's come to that in

of what we work on let's come to that in

of what we work on let's come to that in a minute um i mean this reminds me of

a minute um i mean this reminds me of

a minute um i mean this reminds me of the

the

the story of gideon in the in the bible

story of gideon in the in the bible

story of gideon in the in the bible where

where

where where um he was originally had a force

where um he was originally had a force

where um he was originally had a force of 32

of 32

of 32 000 men up against the midianites that

000 men up against the midianites that

000 men up against the midianites that were a much bigger army

were a much bigger army

were a much bigger army and um the strategy was actually to let

and um the strategy was actually to let

and um the strategy was actually to let go

go

go of most of them you let go of the ones

of most of them you let go of the ones

of most of them you let go of the ones who were afraid you were let go the ones

who were afraid you were let go the ones

who were afraid you were let go the ones who couldn't drink water the right way

who couldn't drink water the right way

who couldn't drink water the right way whatever you end up with the force of

whatever you end up with the force of

whatever you end up with the force of 300 men who who actually then still beat

300 men who who actually then still beat

300 men who who actually then still beat the enemy and it's

the enemy and it's

the enemy and it's it's um um so so

it's um um so so

it's um um so so so step one is almost have have lean but

so step one is almost have have lean but

so step one is almost have have lean but brilliant teams and be willing to

brilliant teams and be willing to

brilliant teams and be willing to let go of people who not who are bad

let go of people who not who are bad

let go of people who not who are bad but who are merely solid that's right in

but who are merely solid that's right in

but who are merely solid that's right in and remember it's not just about the

and remember it's not just about the

and remember it's not just about the individual performance

individual performance

individual performance it's about how the individual works with

it's about how the individual works with

it's about how the individual works with the team because it

the team because it

the team because it everything we do is teamwork and so and

everything we do is teamwork and so and

everything we do is teamwork and so and teamwork is a skill i mean most people

teamwork is a skill i mean most people

teamwork is a skill i mean most people want it

want it

want it but only a few people are so good that

but only a few people are so good that

but only a few people are so good that they know when to do a blind pass or

they know when to do a blind pass or

they know when to do a blind pass or when to reach out and let their team out

when to reach out and let their team out

when to reach out and let their team out teammate know about things

teammate know about things

teammate know about things so remember it's it's both the

so remember it's it's both the

so remember it's it's both the individual talent and the team

individual talent and the team

individual talent and the team skill so the analogy we use a lot is

skill so the analogy we use a lot is

skill so the analogy we use a lot is professional sports

professional sports

professional sports you know if you want to uh have world

you know if you want to uh have world

you know if you want to uh have world class and world cup winning teams

class and world cup winning teams

class and world cup winning teams you need to assemble an amazing group of

you need to assemble an amazing group of

you need to assemble an amazing group of people

people

people at every position and you actually use

at every position and you actually use

at every position and you actually use the word team

the word team

the word team almost in contrary distinction to family

almost in contrary distinction to family

almost in contrary distinction to family a lot of

a lot of

a lot of organizations including that ted we've

organizations including that ted we've

organizations including that ted we've sometimes

sometimes

sometimes used this language we say we're a family

used this language we say we're a family

used this language we say we're a family here

here

here um and um and that that that is supposed

um and um and that that that is supposed

um and um and that that that is supposed to

to

to generate this warm supportive loving

generate this warm supportive loving

generate this warm supportive loving culture

culture

culture you actually say no that's that's

you actually say no that's that's

you actually say no that's that's actually probably not the right

actually probably not the right

actually probably not the right metaphor go with with teams which are

metaphor go with with teams which are

metaphor go with with teams which are where there's more competitive and you

where there's more competitive and you

where there's more competitive and you are actually willing to do things that

are actually willing to do things that

are actually willing to do things that you would never do to a

you would never do to a

you would never do to a family member you can't fire your sister

family member you can't fire your sister

family member you can't fire your sister well that's exactly right which is you

well that's exactly right which is you

well that's exactly right which is you know the family is really about

know the family is really about

know the family is really about unconditional love and

unconditional love and

unconditional love and you know if your sister steals from you

you know if your sister steals from you

you know if your sister steals from you you still love her

you still love her

you still love her and you know if your brother does

and you know if your brother does

and you know if your brother does something awful you still love them

something awful you still love them

something awful you still love them and so families can be very

and so families can be very

and so families can be very dysfunctional

dysfunctional

dysfunctional but we admire them for loyalty above all

but we admire them for loyalty above all

but we admire them for loyalty above all that they stick with each other and

that they stick with each other and

that they stick with each other and that's how i want to be as a family

that's how i want to be as a family

that's how i want to be as a family member also

member also

member also but then a team is really about

but then a team is really about

but then a team is really about performance and it's about contribution

performance and it's about contribution

performance and it's about contribution and about effectiveness with other

and about effectiveness with other

and about effectiveness with other people but some people read

people but some people read

people but some people read may listen to that and kind of react in

may listen to that and kind of react in

may listen to that and kind of react in shock and saying

shock and saying

shock and saying wait a second you're you're talking

wait a second you're you're talking

wait a second you're you're talking about

about

about inviting people to come to your company

inviting people to come to your company

inviting people to come to your company and that they're kind of they're going

and that they're kind of they're going

and that they're kind of they're going to be

to be

to be they're going to be terrified the whole

they're going to be terrified the whole

they're going to be terrified the whole time that they're not measuring

time that they're not measuring

time that they're not measuring up that they may have to leave isn't

up that they may have to leave isn't

up that they may have to leave isn't this a recipe for like a toxic

this a recipe for like a toxic

this a recipe for like a toxic work culture well again think of

work culture well again think of

work culture well again think of athletics

athletics

athletics um you know an athlete could get injured

um you know an athlete could get injured

um you know an athlete could get injured in

in

in any game and end their career and do

any game and end their career and do

any game and end their career and do they walk around terrified

they walk around terrified

they walk around terrified no you know what they do is they have

no you know what they do is they have

no you know what they do is they have the discipline to lean

the discipline to lean

the discipline to lean into the joy of play of winning

into the joy of play of winning

into the joy of play of winning and you know the hunger of the excellent

and you know the hunger of the excellent

and you know the hunger of the excellent teammates

teammates

teammates and so you know people get used to

and so you know people get used to

and so you know people get used to moving forward and they understand if

moving forward and they understand if

moving forward and they understand if you're clear that it's a team

you're clear that it's a team

you're clear that it's a team that not everyone will be on the team

that not everyone will be on the team

that not everyone will be on the team and they maintain the friendships

and they maintain the friendships

and they maintain the friendships and you know we're friends with all the

and you know we're friends with all the

and you know we're friends with all the people that have been cut from netflix

people that have been cut from netflix

people that have been cut from netflix and

and

and it's like an olympic team if you've had

it's like an olympic team if you've had

it's like an olympic team if you've had a friend who's been on one of those and

a friend who's been on one of those and

a friend who's been on one of those and then they get cut i mean it's very sad

then they get cut i mean it's very sad

then they get cut i mean it's very sad it's disappointing it's heartbreaking

it's disappointing it's heartbreaking

it's disappointing it's heartbreaking but there's no shame in it i mean to

but there's no shame in it i mean to

but there's no shame in it i mean to compete at that elite level

compete at that elite level

compete at that elite level it's you know fantastic so a second

it's you know fantastic so a second

it's you know fantastic so a second leg of your three-legged stool is canda

leg of your three-legged stool is canda

leg of your three-legged stool is canda um talk about that there's this unique

um talk about that there's this unique

um talk about that there's this unique sense of

sense of

sense of transparency um to a point that would

transparency um to a point that would

transparency um to a point that would really shock some people

really shock some people

really shock some people well you know i grew up aspiring to be

well you know i grew up aspiring to be

well you know i grew up aspiring to be kind

kind

kind okay and aspiring to be liked and

okay and aspiring to be liked and

okay and aspiring to be liked and certainly not aspiring to cause pain

certainly not aspiring to cause pain

certainly not aspiring to cause pain and so i avoided conflict my when all

and so i avoided conflict my when all

and so i avoided conflict my when all that time i was a bad ceo i would

that time i was a bad ceo i would

that time i was a bad ceo i would you know never deal with conflict

you know never deal with conflict

you know never deal with conflict because i didn't want to hurt people's

because i didn't want to hurt people's

because i didn't want to hurt people's feelings

feelings

feelings and um i had just the most admit my wife

and um i had just the most admit my wife

and um i had just the most admit my wife and i had the most amazing marriage

and i had the most amazing marriage

and i had the most amazing marriage counselor

counselor

counselor in uh now 25 years ago

in uh now 25 years ago

in uh now 25 years ago and he got me to see that i was

and he got me to see that i was

and he got me to see that i was just systematically lying about

just systematically lying about

just systematically lying about everything

everything

everything because i would say things like families

because i would say things like families

because i would say things like families the most important thing

the most important thing

the most important thing and then i would stay at work in the

and then i would stay at work in the

and then i would stay at work in the evening with some employee had a problem

evening with some employee had a problem

evening with some employee had a problem and i would ignore my family i mean so i

and i would ignore my family i mean so i

and i would ignore my family i mean so i was just so

was just so

was just so disconnected from the reality and

disconnected from the reality and

disconnected from the reality and he got me to to see that living more

he got me to to see that living more

he got me to to see that living more honestly would be much better

honestly would be much better

honestly would be much better about you know trade-offs between work

about you know trade-offs between work

about you know trade-offs between work and family and other things and

and family and other things and

and family and other things and he did wonders uh for my marriage and a

he did wonders uh for my marriage and a

he did wonders uh for my marriage and a couple days ago we had our 29th wedding

couple days ago we had our 29th wedding

couple days ago we had our 29th wedding anniversary so that's great

anniversary so that's great

anniversary so that's great but relative to to work he got me to be

but relative to to work he got me to be

but relative to to work he got me to be an honesty seeking ceo instead of a kind

an honesty seeking ceo instead of a kind

an honesty seeking ceo instead of a kind seeking and so now i'm can be very

seeking and so now i'm can be very

seeking and so now i'm can be very straightforward about performance and

straightforward about performance and

straightforward about performance and what's happening

what's happening

what's happening and um and i'm you know i don't like

and um and i'm you know i don't like

and um and i'm you know i don't like causing pain but it's more again like

causing pain but it's more again like

causing pain but it's more again like athletic training

athletic training

athletic training so your trainer is there saying you know

so your trainer is there saying you know

so your trainer is there saying you know give me five more push-ups

give me five more push-ups

give me five more push-ups and that hurts okay but you do it

and that hurts okay but you do it

and that hurts okay but you do it okay and because you realize when you're

okay and because you realize when you're

okay and because you realize when you're exercising that pain

exercising that pain

exercising that pain is helping you be stronger it's the same

is helping you be stronger it's the same

is helping you be stronger it's the same thing

thing

thing with good feedback with candor is that

with good feedback with candor is that

with good feedback with candor is that it can hurt but it still hurts me

it can hurt but it still hurts me

it can hurt but it still hurts me sometimes

sometimes

sometimes but done well it produces growth

but done well it produces growth

but done well it produces growth and that's what's so stimulating so

and that's what's so stimulating so

and that's what's so stimulating so you have this team of super high

you have this team of super high

you have this team of super high performers and

performers and

performers and their instructions are to be willing to

their instructions are to be willing to

their instructions are to be willing to take

take

take if necessary brutally honest feedback

if necessary brutally honest feedback

if necessary brutally honest feedback from each other

from each other

from each other so that they can learn so that they can

so that they can learn so that they can

so that they can learn so that they can grow

grow

grow even if it hurts yeah i mean we would

even if it hurts yeah i mean we would

even if it hurts yeah i mean we would try to minimize the brutality just like

try to minimize the brutality just like

try to minimize the brutality just like in a workout you don't want to work out

in a workout you don't want to work out

in a workout you don't want to work out to be brutal that doesn't make you

to be brutal that doesn't make you

to be brutal that doesn't make you stronger

stronger

stronger you want to work out to be constructive

you want to work out to be constructive

you want to work out to be constructive and productive

and productive

and productive so i mean occasionally it might feel

so i mean occasionally it might feel

so i mean occasionally it might feel brutal but

brutal but

brutal but honestly that's not what we admire what

honestly that's not what we admire what

honestly that's not what we admire what we admire is thoughtful

we admire is thoughtful

we admire is thoughtful feedback with positive intent that's

feedback with positive intent that's

feedback with positive intent that's really helping a person get better at

really helping a person get better at

really helping a person get better at what they do

what they do

what they do and you adopt this yourself you're

and you adopt this yourself you're

and you adopt this yourself you're willing to take criticism

willing to take criticism

willing to take criticism from people anywhere in the company

from people anywhere in the company

from people anywhere in the company yeah um so it's so important

yeah um so it's so important

yeah um so it's so important you know generally in everything it's

you know generally in everything it's

you know generally in everything it's important to be a role model as a leader

important to be a role model as a leader

important to be a role model as a leader but in particular in feedback because of

but in particular in feedback because of

but in particular in feedback because of the power dynamics

the power dynamics

the power dynamics you really have to create an openness

you really have to create an openness

you really have to create an openness for people to give you feedback by

for people to give you feedback by

for people to give you feedback by giving them psychological rewards that

giving them psychological rewards that

giving them psychological rewards that was so great by lauding them

was so great by lauding them

was so great by lauding them and we do things to farm for dissent

and we do things to farm for dissent

and we do things to farm for dissent so let's say there's a decision about

so let's say there's a decision about

so let's say there's a decision about you know

you know

you know what should we do about uh the pandemic

what should we do about uh the pandemic

what should we do about uh the pandemic and you know what should we

and you know what should we

and you know what should we you know then we would open it up for

you know then we would open it up for

you know then we would open it up for discussion

discussion

discussion and then we want each person to weigh in

and then we want each person to weigh in

and then we want each person to weigh in with do they think it's a good idea

with do they think it's a good idea

with do they think it's a good idea or bad idea to say close down or

or bad idea to say close down or

or bad idea to say close down or whatever the issue is

whatever the issue is

whatever the issue is another thing we do is run an exercise

another thing we do is run an exercise

another thing we do is run an exercise what would be different

what would be different

what would be different if you were ceo instead of me and it's a

if you were ceo instead of me and it's a

if you were ceo instead of me and it's a way of people writing down some people

way of people writing down some people

way of people writing down some people say things like well

say things like well

say things like well lunches would be better but you know

lunches would be better but you know

lunches would be better but you know fairly trivial and other people say

fairly trivial and other people say

fairly trivial and other people say things of

things of

things of you know we would be in the video game

you know we would be in the video game

you know we would be in the video game market and here's why

market and here's why

market and here's why and and other people would you know all

and and other people would you know all

and and other people would you know all different things so

different things so

different things so think of these all as devices that we

think of these all as devices that we

think of these all as devices that we have in the book

have in the book

have in the book that are ways of farming for dissent as

that are ways of farming for dissent as

that are ways of farming for dissent as the general principle

the general principle

the general principle i mean in the book um you

i mean in the book um you

i mean in the book um you talked through um you know four

talked through um you know four

talked through um you know four instances of that are really quite

instances of that are really quite

instances of that are really quite surprising i think your your co-author

surprising i think your your co-author

surprising i think your your co-author erin

erin

erin mayer puts these four tough questions to

mayer puts these four tough questions to

mayer puts these four tough questions to you on on candor

you on on candor

you on on candor and uh in each case the answers at least

and uh in each case the answers at least

and uh in each case the answers at least to me were quite were quite surprising

to me were quite were quite surprising

to me were quite were quite surprising that you were willing to go there so one

that you were willing to go there so one

that you were willing to go there so one of them

of them

of them was the instance you're you're a public

was the instance you're you're a public

was the instance you're you're a public company um

company um

company um you're announcing you're about to

you're announcing you're about to

you're announcing you're about to announce your quarterly

announce your quarterly

announce your quarterly results

do you let employees internally know

do you let employees internally know

do you let employees internally know those numbers

those numbers

those numbers ahead of time knowing that anyone who

ahead of time knowing that anyone who

ahead of time knowing that anyone who leaks that information

leaks that information

leaks that information could go to jail or do you do what most

could go to jail or do you do what most

could go to jail or do you do what most companies do and

companies do and

companies do and keep that information absolutely tightly

keep that information absolutely tightly

keep that information absolutely tightly controlled which way do you go

controlled which way do you go

controlled which way do you go we go open with the information um

we go open with the information um

we go open with the information um and at netflix but in my first company

and at netflix but in my first company

and at netflix but in my first company of course we spent elaborate time

of course we spent elaborate time

of course we spent elaborate time making sure that no one could see this

making sure that no one could see this

making sure that no one could see this and this and we had information controls

and this and we had information controls

and this and we had information controls and compartmentalization and it's like

and compartmentalization and it's like

and compartmentalization and it's like all a big power trip

all a big power trip

all a big power trip and really when you think about it if

and really when you think about it if

and really when you think about it if you think about risks

you think about risks

you think about risks there's short-term risks which would not

there's short-term risks which would not

there's short-term risks which would not be good if somebody leaks the

be good if somebody leaks the

be good if somebody leaks the information

information

information and there's long-term risks which is

and there's long-term risks which is

and there's long-term risks which is employees understand they feel

employees understand they feel

employees understand they feel power they feel in control they feel

power they feel in control they feel

power they feel in control they feel special

special

special and organizations really have many more

and organizations really have many more

and organizations really have many more risks of the latter

risks of the latter

risks of the latter sort of employee alienation than they do

sort of employee alienation than they do

sort of employee alienation than they do about potentially someone leaking

about potentially someone leaking

about potentially someone leaking something

something

something so you know for us we want to be

so you know for us we want to be

so you know for us we want to be you know very transparent very open with

you know very transparent very open with

you know very transparent very open with employees

employees

employees have them feel very trusted and what we

have them feel very trusted and what we

have them feel very trusted and what we get back

get back

get back is then the sense of commitment that

is then the sense of commitment that

is then the sense of commitment that they have and that they really go the

they have and that they really go the

they have and that they really go the extra mile

extra mile

extra mile because they care because they feel it's

because they care because they feel it's

because they care because they feel it's unique and so

unique and so

unique and so just like our unlimited vacation this

just like our unlimited vacation this

just like our unlimited vacation this sharing the the earnings numbers

sharing the the earnings numbers

sharing the the earnings numbers there's sort of big symbolism that is we

there's sort of big symbolism that is we

there's sort of big symbolism that is we don't

don't

don't you know we don't beat blockbuster or

you know we don't beat blockbuster or

you know we don't beat blockbuster or hbo

hbo

hbo because we release our numbers and they

because we release our numbers and they

because we release our numbers and they don't okay

don't okay

don't okay but it's part of uh creating a culture

but it's part of uh creating a culture

but it's part of uh creating a culture that's unique and

that's unique and

that's unique and open and candid so you tell people

open and candid so you tell people

open and candid so you tell people i mean they're clear what the rules are

i mean they're clear what the rules are

i mean they're clear what the rules are that that it's illegal for them to share

that that it's illegal for them to share

that that it's illegal for them to share this information

this information

this information but nonetheless you you share it and you

but nonetheless you you share it and you

but nonetheless you you share it and you also share

also share

also share like key company strategy

like key company strategy

like key company strategy documents that would be um invaluable to

documents that would be um invaluable to

documents that would be um invaluable to a competitor you're willing to trust

a competitor you're willing to trust

a competitor you're willing to trust even like new employees

even like new employees

even like new employees with with that information has that

with with that information has that

with with that information has that really never

really never

really never come back to bite you no it has come

come back to bite you no it has come

come back to bite you no it has come back to bite us so

back to bite us so

back to bite us so think about it is there are lots of

think about it is there are lots of

think about it is there are lots of little bites you get

little bites you get

little bites you get in sharing information okay it's not

in sharing information okay it's not

in sharing information okay it's not perfect

perfect

perfect but you recognize that what that does

but you recognize that what that does

but you recognize that what that does you get an exchange of that openness for

you get an exchange of that openness for

you get an exchange of that openness for all the other people

all the other people

all the other people is you get a great sense of buy-in of

is you get a great sense of buy-in of

is you get a great sense of buy-in of commitment of uniqueness

commitment of uniqueness

commitment of uniqueness and then if you think about the risks

and then if you think about the risks

and then if you think about the risks again in my first company which didn't

again in my first company which didn't

again in my first company which didn't work out as well

work out as well

work out as well every time there was a small bite i

every time there was a small bite i

every time there was a small bite i wanted to fix that problem

wanted to fix that problem

wanted to fix that problem okay and then you get more and more

okay and then you get more and more

okay and then you get more and more rigid more process

rigid more process

rigid more process more control of information um and so

more control of information um and so

more control of information um and so it's it but in the short term it's fine

it's it but in the short term it's fine

it's it but in the short term it's fine okay it's just that

okay it's just that

okay it's just that uh sometimes we call it as like building

uh sometimes we call it as like building

uh sometimes we call it as like building up barnacles on a boat

up barnacles on a boat

up barnacles on a boat right and then no one never takes the

right and then no one never takes the

right and then no one never takes the time to scrape them and eventually it

time to scrape them and eventually it

time to scrape them and eventually it sinks you

sinks you

sinks you so that's why we try to always invest

so that's why we try to always invest

so that's why we try to always invest in in that openness and candor

in in that openness and candor

in in that openness and candor another example um that was put to you

another example um that was put to you

another example um that was put to you was okay so what if

was okay so what if

was okay so what if the company is thinking about some kind

the company is thinking about some kind

the company is thinking about some kind of restructuring

of restructuring

of restructuring and uh a manager is told that that

and uh a manager is told that that

and uh a manager is told that that several of her employees has a 50

several of her employees has a 50

several of her employees has a 50 chance of losing their job should that

chance of losing their job should that

chance of losing their job should that manager

manager

manager tell those employees that their jobs may

tell those employees that their jobs may

tell those employees that their jobs may be at risk what's what's your

be at risk what's what's your

be at risk what's what's your recommendation on canada

recommendation on canada

recommendation on canada in that circumstance to lean into the

in that circumstance to lean into the

in that circumstance to lean into the candor

candor

candor and to tell the potential uh the

and to tell the potential uh the

and to tell the potential uh the employee with the potential job losses

employee with the potential job losses

employee with the potential job losses about it

about it

about it and to get their opinion on it and

and to get their opinion on it and

and to get their opinion on it and involve them and

involve them and

involve them and we try to develop you know mature

we try to develop you know mature

we try to develop you know mature thinking people

thinking people

thinking people and i'm not saying it doesn't scare them

and i'm not saying it doesn't scare them

and i'm not saying it doesn't scare them it does but on balance they would rather

it does but on balance they would rather

it does but on balance they would rather be involved in the decision

be involved in the decision

be involved in the decision and then are more effective on executing

and then are more effective on executing

and then are more effective on executing it if we're

it if we're

it if we're you know changing in some way like that

you know changing in some way like that

you know changing in some way like that so

so

so um you know we really want

um you know we really want

um you know we really want uh people to be involved and trusted and

uh people to be involved and trusted and

uh people to be involved and trusted and it is harder you know

it is harder you know

it is harder you know if you want to have a simple job where

if you want to have a simple job where

if you want to have a simple job where you don't have to think and you can just

you don't have to think and you can just

you don't have to think and you can just work you know eight to five

work you know eight to five

work you know eight to five and and have no worries you know we're

and and have no worries you know we're

and and have no worries you know we're not the right place

not the right place

not the right place and if you're the kind of person that

and if you're the kind of person that

and if you're the kind of person that wants to grow and learn

wants to grow and learn

wants to grow and learn and understand more and you're willing

and understand more and you're willing

and understand more and you're willing to be challenged in various ways

to be challenged in various ways

to be challenged in various ways then you love netflix i mean is this an

then you love netflix i mean is this an

then you love netflix i mean is this an instance

instance

instance where again these these two legs belong

where again these these two legs belong

where again these these two legs belong together that it's only because

together that it's only because

together that it's only because you're recruiting and retaining um

you're recruiting and retaining um

you're recruiting and retaining um people who who are strongly talented and

people who who are strongly talented and

people who who are strongly talented and know they are that you can afford

know they are that you can afford

know they are that you can afford to have a culture which gives them

to have a culture which gives them

to have a culture which gives them absolutely honest

absolutely honest

absolutely honest um criticism at times because in for

um criticism at times because in for

um criticism at times because in for many people you

many people you

many people you would say no no that would crush

would say no no that would crush

would say no no that would crush someone's confidence

someone's confidence

someone's confidence and they then won't perform that you

and they then won't perform that you

and they then won't perform that you need to

need to

need to anchor your management style on

anchor your management style on

anchor your management style on encouraging people and praising them

encouraging people and praising them

encouraging people and praising them and and so forth and you're often being

and and so forth and you're often being

and and so forth and you're often being willing to do

willing to do

willing to do the opposite so is it is it is it only

the opposite so is it is it is it only

the opposite so is it is it is it only because

because

because you're you you start with this talent

you're you you start with this talent

you're you you start with this talent density

density

density exactly so it's an ecosystem

exactly so it's an ecosystem

exactly so it's an ecosystem and it's why in the book we kind of help

and it's why in the book we kind of help

and it's why in the book we kind of help people think about how to evolve towards

people think about how to evolve towards

people think about how to evolve towards it you wouldn't want to

it you wouldn't want to

it you wouldn't want to change overnight to do all these things

change overnight to do all these things

change overnight to do all these things it's too radical

it's too radical

it's too radical it's like take you can take this step

it's like take you can take this step

it's like take you can take this step this step try it see how it works

this step try it see how it works

this step try it see how it works and you build confidence over time um

and you build confidence over time um

and you build confidence over time um in doing all these steps including you

in doing all these steps including you

in doing all these steps including you know setting context and all the things

know setting context and all the things

know setting context and all the things we have coming up

we have coming up

we have coming up so then talk about um the next leg of

so then talk about um the next leg of

so then talk about um the next leg of the store the third leg

the store the third leg

the store the third leg here um controls when you have these

here um controls when you have these

here um controls when you have these other things

other things

other things in place you can afford to do something

in place you can afford to do something

in place you can afford to do something pretty radical in terms of the way that

pretty radical in terms of the way that

pretty radical in terms of the way that companies normally control what

companies normally control what

companies normally control what employees do talk about that we want our

employees do talk about that we want our

employees do talk about that we want our leaders to be great teachers

leaders to be great teachers

leaders to be great teachers okay to be in again inspirational

okay to be in again inspirational

okay to be in again inspirational and not to be controlling uh think of

and not to be controlling uh think of

and not to be controlling uh think of the

the

the we're trying to get away from the

we're trying to get away from the

we're trying to get away from the factory paradigm where they set the

factory paradigm where they set the

factory paradigm where they set the rules you follow them as the worker

rules you follow them as the worker

rules you follow them as the worker and we're trying to really show people

and we're trying to really show people

and we're trying to really show people you don't need these controls and

you don't need these controls and

you don't need these controls and some of the the symbolic things in that

some of the the symbolic things in that

some of the the symbolic things in that are things like no limits on vacation

are things like no limits on vacation

are things like no limits on vacation and

and

and it's really just symbolic okay because

it's really just symbolic okay because

it's really just symbolic okay because it's it's not again like we beat

it's it's not again like we beat

it's it's not again like we beat blockbuster you know or hbo because

blockbuster you know or hbo because

blockbuster you know or hbo because you know we have unlimited vacation and

you know we have unlimited vacation and

you know we have unlimited vacation and they don't

they don't

they don't but it's one more aspect of trusting

but it's one more aspect of trusting

but it's one more aspect of trusting people

people

people and think about it just logically we

and think about it just logically we

and think about it just logically we don't know

don't know

don't know how many hours a person works in a day

how many hours a person works in a day

how many hours a person works in a day are they working

are they working

are they working eight hours a day 10 12 we don't track

eight hours a day 10 12 we don't track

eight hours a day 10 12 we don't track any of that

any of that

any of that so why should we track whether they take

so why should we track whether they take

so why should we track whether they take work for 48 weeks

work for 48 weeks

work for 48 weeks or work for 46 weeks or work for 50

or work for 46 weeks or work for 50

or work for 46 weeks or work for 50 weeks

weeks

weeks you know it's in the noise so and people

you know it's in the noise so and people

you know it's in the noise so and people say well

say well

say well what if somebody takes on you know too

what if somebody takes on you know too

what if somebody takes on you know too much vacation

much vacation

much vacation and i'm like you know we don't have a

and i'm like you know we don't have a

and i'm like you know we don't have a clothing policy

clothing policy

clothing policy and yet people don't come to work naked

and yet people don't come to work naked

and yet people don't come to work naked so

so

so why is that you know and that's because

why is that you know and that's because

why is that you know and that's because they have a cultural belief about

they have a cultural belief about

they have a cultural belief about it's appropriate to wear clothing in the

it's appropriate to wear clothing in the

it's appropriate to wear clothing in the office

office

office so it's the same kind of thing about

so it's the same kind of thing about

so it's the same kind of thing about vacation people have expectations

vacation people have expectations

vacation people have expectations um and that works and then the other

um and that works and then the other

um and that works and then the other fear potentially is that no one takes

fear potentially is that no one takes

fear potentially is that no one takes vacation because

vacation because

vacation because you know you don't know how much you can

you know you don't know how much you can

you know you don't know how much you can take but you know i take a lot try to

take but you know i take a lot try to

take but you know i take a lot try to set a great example that way and um

set a great example that way and um

set a great example that way and um and people have great vacations and

and people have great vacations and

and people have great vacations and great lives and also accomplish a lot of

great lives and also accomplish a lot of

great lives and also accomplish a lot of work

work

work so this is definitely head scratching

so this is definitely head scratching

so this is definitely head scratching for some people thinking about this they

for some people thinking about this they

for some people thinking about this they go but

go but

go but but wait a sec there would always be

but wait a sec there would always be

but wait a sec there would always be someone who would

someone who would

someone who would cause huge annoyance by abusing this

cause huge annoyance by abusing this

cause huge annoyance by abusing this policy and

policy and

policy and and constantly taking time off does

and constantly taking time off does

and constantly taking time off does what happens then that person just gets

what happens then that person just gets

what happens then that person just gets fired because

fired because

fired because they're suddenly no longer really

they're suddenly no longer really

they're suddenly no longer really supporting the culture how do you avoid

supporting the culture how do you avoid

supporting the culture how do you avoid that

that

that well let's take a case of um someone's

well let's take a case of um someone's

well let's take a case of um someone's takes every other month is vacation

takes every other month is vacation

takes every other month is vacation but they're just incredibly productive

but they're just incredibly productive

but they're just incredibly productive but when they come back they've got all

but when they come back they've got all

but when they come back they've got all these fresh ideas that

these fresh ideas that

these fresh ideas that like are amazing i mean you know i i

like are amazing i mean you know i i

like are amazing i mean you know i i would fight to keep that person

would fight to keep that person

would fight to keep that person so it's really not about you know how

so it's really not about you know how

so it's really not about you know how many hours you're in the office or

many hours you're in the office or

many hours you're in the office or how much you work it's trying to get to

how much you work it's trying to get to

how much you work it's trying to get to the contribution

the contribution

the contribution and let's take a case where you know if

and let's take a case where you know if

and let's take a case where you know if someone did abuse it

someone did abuse it

someone did abuse it sure but again that might be 100 1 in 50

sure but again that might be 100 1 in 50

sure but again that might be 100 1 in 50 and the whole theory here is we're not

and the whole theory here is we're not

and the whole theory here is we're not focused on efficiency

focused on efficiency

focused on efficiency we're focused on flexibility and

we're focused on flexibility and

we're focused on flexibility and inspiration so you have to say

inspiration so you have to say

inspiration so you have to say there's going to be lots of little

there's going to be lots of little

there's going to be lots of little things going wrong

things going wrong

things going wrong but in the big scheme of things so what

but in the big scheme of things so what

but in the big scheme of things so what and what you really want to care about

and what you really want to care about

and what you really want to care about is a group of people

is a group of people

is a group of people who are just always trying to think

who are just always trying to think

who are just always trying to think creatively how do we serve the customers

creatively how do we serve the customers

creatively how do we serve the customers better

better

better how do we grow the business and if

how do we grow the business and if

how do we grow the business and if you've got everyone thinking

you've got everyone thinking

you've got everyone thinking independently about you know how to

independently about you know how to

independently about you know how to please the customers how to grow the

please the customers how to grow the

please the customers how to grow the business it's very powerful

business it's very powerful

business it's very powerful i mean you talk a lot in the book about

i mean you talk a lot in the book about

i mean you talk a lot in the book about how combined with that

how combined with that

how combined with that letting go of control you need to

letting go of control you need to

letting go of control you need to establish

establish

establish context so that people basically get the

context so that people basically get the

context so that people basically get the sense so another control for example

sense so another control for example

sense so another control for example that you

that you

that you have let go of is expense management

have let go of is expense management

have let go of is expense management there aren't

there aren't

there aren't really expense rules but there is i

really expense rules but there is i

really expense rules but there is i guess modeling

guess modeling

guess modeling by managers and

by managers and

by managers and i i assume that there's some kind of

i i assume that there's some kind of

i i assume that there's some kind of understanding of what is normally okay

understanding of what is normally okay

understanding of what is normally okay for example

for example

for example the circumstances where someone could

the circumstances where someone could

the circumstances where someone could just book a you know

just book a you know

just book a you know business class flight for example versus

business class flight for example versus

business class flight for example versus economy that that that becomes part of

economy that that that becomes part of

economy that that that becomes part of the

the

the cultural expectations somehow yeah i

cultural expectations somehow yeah i

cultural expectations somehow yeah i mean

mean

mean the guidance or context that we give is

the guidance or context that we give is

the guidance or context that we give is do what's in netflix's best interest

do what's in netflix's best interest

do what's in netflix's best interest so if you've got to be uh you're flying

so if you've got to be uh you're flying

so if you've got to be uh you're flying overnight

overnight

overnight and then you're going right into the

and then you're going right into the

and then you're going right into the office and you've got a big presentation

office and you've got a big presentation

office and you've got a big presentation it definitely makes sense to

it definitely makes sense to

it definitely makes sense to you know get sleep well on the flight

you know get sleep well on the flight

you know get sleep well on the flight and that

and that

and that and so so think of it as it's very

and so so think of it as it's very

and so so think of it as it's very makes people have to think you know uh

makes people have to think you know uh

makes people have to think you know uh is this the right thing to do for

is this the right thing to do for

is this the right thing to do for netflix and if it is

netflix and if it is

netflix and if it is you know they can order champagne i mean

you know they can order champagne i mean

you know they can order champagne i mean you know if that's the right thing to do

you know if that's the right thing to do

you know if that's the right thing to do and entertaining some

and entertaining some

and entertaining some you know host it's fine we don't have to

you know host it's fine we don't have to

you know host it's fine we don't have to set rules about it

set rules about it

set rules about it um but in general you you may have to

um but in general you you may have to

um but in general you you may have to defend

defend

defend why it's in netflix's best interest and

why it's in netflix's best interest and

why it's in netflix's best interest and you know on occasion we do have people

you know on occasion we do have people

you know on occasion we do have people who uh you know

who uh you know

who uh you know are hugely extravagant and cheap on the

are hugely extravagant and cheap on the

are hugely extravagant and cheap on the system basically

system basically

system basically um and then they're gone again so

um and then they're gone again so

um and then they're gone again so but you can't worry about the little

but you can't worry about the little

but you can't worry about the little mistakes

mistakes

mistakes or you'll get consumed with them what

or you'll get consumed with them what

or you'll get consumed with them what you're trying to do

you're trying to do

you're trying to do is is keep it healthy for everybody else

is is keep it healthy for everybody else

is is keep it healthy for everybody else where it's very simple

where it's very simple

where it's very simple and they don't have to seek permission

and they don't have to seek permission

and they don't have to seek permission you know for each little thing

you know for each little thing

you know for each little thing but humans are very um can easily be

but humans are very um can easily be

but humans are very um can easily be annoyed by what is perceived as sort of

annoyed by what is perceived as sort of

annoyed by what is perceived as sort of i don't know

i don't know

i don't know unfair or you know taking the piss

unfair or you know taking the piss

unfair or you know taking the piss behavior by by

behavior by by

behavior by by a colleague are you sure that there

a colleague are you sure that there

a colleague are you sure that there aren't actually lots of little

aren't actually lots of little

aren't actually lots of little resentments and annoyances going on that

resentments and annoyances going on that

resentments and annoyances going on that actually are quite

actually are quite

actually are quite destructive when it actually would be

destructive when it actually would be

destructive when it actually would be quite simple just to

quite simple just to

quite simple just to give a few guidelines isn't what most

give a few guidelines isn't what most

give a few guidelines isn't what most people want

people want

people want like couldn't you have a variant of your

like couldn't you have a variant of your

like couldn't you have a variant of your policy where there are basic guidelines

policy where there are basic guidelines

policy where there are basic guidelines in place but you say to people look if

in place but you say to people look if

in place but you say to people look if if there are exceptional circumstances

if there are exceptional circumstances

if there are exceptional circumstances use your judgment

use your judgment

use your judgment yeah um absolutely um

yeah um absolutely um

yeah um absolutely um and maybe that'll be a little bit better

and maybe that'll be a little bit better

and maybe that'll be a little bit better so you know so other companies can try

so you know so other companies can try

so you know so other companies can try that or maybe they find

that or maybe they find

that or maybe they find that then once they go to one rule like

that then once they go to one rule like

that then once they go to one rule like if the flight's longer than eight hours

if the flight's longer than eight hours

if the flight's longer than eight hours you could do business class okay

you could do business class okay

you could do business class okay and then the question comes up well what

and then the question comes up well what

and then the question comes up well what about if it stops somewhere and there's

about if it stops somewhere and there's

about if it stops somewhere and there's a long layover

a long layover

a long layover and what about if it's overnight what

and what about if it's overnight what

and what about if it's overnight what about if the business class flight's

about if the business class flight's

about if the business class flight's very cheap and

very cheap and

very cheap and it's like once you start getting into

it's like once you start getting into

it's like once you start getting into specifying rules

specifying rules

specifying rules there's no end it just goes on and on so

there's no end it just goes on and on so

there's no end it just goes on and on so that's why we

that's why we

that's why we do the general principle which in this

do the general principle which in this

do the general principle which in this one the original general principle

one the original general principle

one the original general principle was spend the money as if it was your

was spend the money as if it was your

was spend the money as if it was your own

own

own okay and then there was two problems

okay and then there was two problems

okay and then there was two problems with that which is

with that which is

with that which is sometimes people would be like i know

sometimes people would be like i know

sometimes people would be like i know when i travel myself

when i travel myself

when i travel myself i do extravagant travel that's how i

i do extravagant travel that's how i

i do extravagant travel that's how i travel okay

travel okay

travel okay and then you got the opposite which is

and then you got the opposite which is

and then you got the opposite which is no i'm uh

no i'm uh

no i'm uh when i travel personally i'm very cheap

when i travel personally i'm very cheap

when i travel personally i'm very cheap but i don't do it very often

but i don't do it very often

but i don't do it very often and you know i have to travel for work a

and you know i have to travel for work a

and you know i have to travel for work a lot and so i want to travel differently

lot and so i want to travel differently

lot and so i want to travel differently than i do personally

than i do personally

than i do personally so that was a case where we saw over

so that was a case where we saw over

so that was a case where we saw over time that our context

time that our context

time that our context which was spend as if it was your own

which was spend as if it was your own

which was spend as if it was your own money was not correct

money was not correct

money was not correct and we adjusted it to be spending it

and we adjusted it to be spending it

and we adjusted it to be spending it uh as you think is in netflix's best

uh as you think is in netflix's best

uh as you think is in netflix's best interest

interest

interest so when you put these pieces together

so when you put these pieces together

so when you put these pieces together you have this philosophy of

you have this philosophy of

you have this philosophy of of what you call freedom plus

of what you call freedom plus

of what you call freedom plus responsibility it's it's sort of

responsibility it's it's sort of

responsibility it's it's sort of you you replace the whole panoply of

you you replace the whole panoply of

you you replace the whole panoply of policies and rules and just say

policies and rules and just say

policies and rules and just say you basically say get tons of people

you basically say get tons of people

you basically say get tons of people let them do their thing but let them own

let them do their thing but let them own

let them do their thing but let them own own the outcome

own the outcome

own the outcome of that thing that's right so you can

of that thing that's right so you can

of that thing that's right so you can think of it as the macro thing is use

think of it as the macro thing is use

think of it as the macro thing is use good judgment

good judgment

good judgment okay and then for every and then you're

okay and then for every and then you're

okay and then for every and then you're going to have some mistakes

going to have some mistakes

going to have some mistakes but the whole point of it is those don't

but the whole point of it is those don't

but the whole point of it is those don't really matter

really matter

really matter in the success of the company over multi

in the success of the company over multi

in the success of the company over multi decades

decades

decades okay what matters and success of the

okay what matters and success of the

okay what matters and success of the company over multi decades

company over multi decades

company over multi decades is the new ideas so everything's

is the new ideas so everything's

is the new ideas so everything's organized around

organized around

organized around uh let's have you know this fertile so

uh let's have you know this fertile so

uh let's have you know this fertile so the old world is sterile

the old world is sterile

the old world is sterile follow the rules factory okay and the

follow the rules factory okay and the

follow the rules factory okay and the world we're trying to create is fertile

world we're trying to create is fertile

world we're trying to create is fertile and it's a little bit chaotic and it's

and it's a little bit chaotic and it's

and it's a little bit chaotic and it's dirty and it's messy and mistakes get

dirty and it's messy and mistakes get

dirty and it's messy and mistakes get made

made

made but ideas get generated and there's

but ideas get generated and there's

but ideas get generated and there's fresh thinking and people

fresh thinking and people

fresh thinking and people are independently trying to think what's

are independently trying to think what's

are independently trying to think what's good for the customers what's good for

good for the customers what's good for

good for the customers what's good for the company how do we grow

the company how do we grow

the company how do we grow and that's very powerful and it

and that's very powerful and it

and that's very powerful and it overwhelms

overwhelms

overwhelms essentially the small amount of little

essentially the small amount of little

essentially the small amount of little mistakes that come

mistakes that come

mistakes that come that all those controls are trying to to

that all those controls are trying to to

that all those controls are trying to to serve

serve

serve so put those pieces to together

so put those pieces to together

so put those pieces to together reed and and um give an example of how

reed and and um give an example of how

reed and and um give an example of how you know this culture has allowed

you know this culture has allowed

you know this culture has allowed talent to be attracted and to flourish

talent to be attracted and to flourish

talent to be attracted and to flourish that has been able to successfully take

that has been able to successfully take

that has been able to successfully take on

on

on you know the world's giant studios with

you know the world's giant studios with

you know the world's giant studios with all their creative

all their creative

all their creative talent how on earth is it that you've

talent how on earth is it that you've

talent how on earth is it that you've been able to

been able to

been able to you know coming from this sort of tech

you know coming from this sort of tech

you know coming from this sort of tech background be able to

background be able to

background be able to come in and um you know produce content

come in and um you know produce content

come in and um you know produce content that competes the early story i always

that competes the early story i always

that competes the early story i always heard was that oh you had all this data

heard was that oh you had all this data

heard was that oh you had all this data that they didn't have and you could see

that they didn't have and you could see

that they didn't have and you could see what

what

what what kind of users actually wanted

what kind of users actually wanted

what kind of users actually wanted um how much is it that the story versus

um how much is it that the story versus

um how much is it that the story versus attracting genuinely brilliant creative

attracting genuinely brilliant creative

attracting genuinely brilliant creative people and empowering them

people and empowering them

people and empowering them yeah it's definitely not the data um so

yeah it's definitely not the data um so

yeah it's definitely not the data um so there's lots of data

there's lots of data

there's lots of data about what television shows people watch

about what television shows people watch

about what television shows people watch from nielsen there's lots of data

from nielsen there's lots of data

from nielsen there's lots of data of box office for film so all of our

of box office for film so all of our

of box office for film so all of our competitors have have lots of data too

competitors have have lots of data too

competitors have have lots of data too that's not

that's not

that's not the difference is we have lots of people

the difference is we have lots of people

the difference is we have lots of people in our content group that can make

in our content group that can make

in our content group that can make decisions

decisions

decisions in a major studio or network every

in a major studio or network every

in a major studio or network every decision gets

decision gets

decision gets reviewed five levels up and you know

reviewed five levels up and you know

reviewed five levels up and you know micromanaged

micromanaged

micromanaged and what we do is we have lots of

and what we do is we have lots of

and what we do is we have lots of independent people

independent people

independent people who are then making decisions big

who are then making decisions big

who are then making decisions big decisions uh

decisions uh

decisions uh about what content to do and why and

about what content to do and why and

about what content to do and why and some of them won't work out

some of them won't work out

some of them won't work out okay some of them will be a mistake but

okay some of them will be a mistake but

okay some of them will be a mistake but that's okay

that's okay

that's okay and because if you get you know orange

and because if you get you know orange

and because if you get you know orange is the new black and you get stranger

is the new black and you get stranger

is the new black and you get stranger things and you get the old guard you get

things and you get the old guard you get

things and you get the old guard you get you know these big successes

you know these big successes

you know these big successes so um it's really organized around

so um it's really organized around

so um it's really organized around distributing power

distributing power

distributing power i talk about how a perfect quarter for

i talk about how a perfect quarter for

i talk about how a perfect quarter for me

me

me is one where i've made no decisions all

is one where i've made no decisions all

is one where i've made no decisions all i've done is advocate

i've done is advocate

i've done is advocate influence inspire and

influence inspire and

influence inspire and you know i do have to make some

you know i do have to make some

you know i do have to make some decisions like promoting ted the co

decisions like promoting ted the co

decisions like promoting ted the co uh ted sarandos who's been with us for

uh ted sarandos who's been with us for

uh ted sarandos who's been with us for more than 20 years again i do make some

more than 20 years again i do make some

more than 20 years again i do make some but they're as few as possible because

but they're as few as possible because

but they're as few as possible because what we wanted to do is to really

what we wanted to do is to really

what we wanted to do is to really have the other people make the decisions

have the other people make the decisions

have the other people make the decisions and

and

and again that's worked extremely well in

again that's worked extremely well in

again that's worked extremely well in content because

content because

content because then we can attract very talented people

then we can attract very talented people

then we can attract very talented people out of cbs

out of cbs

out of cbs out of hbo because they get to make

out of hbo because they get to make

out of hbo because they get to make decisions and they get to run

decisions and they get to run

decisions and they get to run independently so

independently so

independently so stranger things was obviously this

stranger things was obviously this

stranger things was obviously this breakout hit give us

breakout hit give us

breakout hit give us the story of how that

the story of how that

the story of how that arrived at netflix how did that come to

arrived at netflix how did that come to

arrived at netflix how did that come to be made by

be made by

be made by netflix well you know there's a lot of

netflix well you know there's a lot of

netflix well you know there's a lot of people

people

people in um hollywood kind of talking all the

in um hollywood kind of talking all the

in um hollywood kind of talking all the time across firms and

time across firms and

time across firms and agencies and pitching ideas

agencies and pitching ideas

agencies and pitching ideas um and uh in that particular case the

um and uh in that particular case the

um and uh in that particular case the script had been seen by

script had been seen by

script had been seen by uh you know many people um

uh you know many people um

uh you know many people um and our team one of our team thought

and our team one of our team thought

and our team one of our team thought this is going to be amazing

this is going to be amazing

this is going to be amazing and again it wasn't obvious you know

and again it wasn't obvious you know

and again it wasn't obvious you know reading the script that it was

reading the script that it was

reading the script that it was uh but you know we're willing to let

uh but you know we're willing to let

uh but you know we're willing to let people take bets

people take bets

people take bets and then you know this show uh with its

and then you know this show uh with its

and then you know this show uh with its you know kind of unique

you know kind of unique

you know kind of unique 80s retro and the kids you know became

80s retro and the kids you know became

80s retro and the kids you know became this warm but slightly scary kind of

this warm but slightly scary kind of

this warm but slightly scary kind of story that families could enjoy

story that families could enjoy

story that families could enjoy and it it really took off so and

and it it really took off so and

and it it really took off so and but you know we've had equally number

but you know we've had equally number

but you know we've had equally number shows that uh did not

shows that uh did not

shows that uh did not so again what you want to do is inspire

so again what you want to do is inspire

so again what you want to do is inspire people to take risks and take chances

people to take risks and take chances

people to take risks and take chances because the winners are so much more

because the winners are so much more

because the winners are so much more important you know than the ones that

important you know than the ones that

important you know than the ones that don't

don't

don't uh become big so is that actually an

uh become big so is that actually an

uh become big so is that actually an important principle in it if you're

important principle in it if you're

important principle in it if you're running a creative business

running a creative business

running a creative business expect to have a lot of failure and it's

expect to have a lot of failure and it's

expect to have a lot of failure and it's worth embracing those

worth embracing those

worth embracing those and much better to empower people um

and much better to empower people um

and much better to empower people um to try lots of things and um and that

to try lots of things and um and that

to try lots of things and um and that that's your best

that's your best

that's your best shot at getting genuine breakout hits

shot at getting genuine breakout hits

shot at getting genuine breakout hits which is ultimately what will drive the

which is ultimately what will drive the

which is ultimately what will drive the business

business

business a way to think about it is innovation uh

a way to think about it is innovation uh

a way to think about it is innovation uh requires variation you have to try

requires variation you have to try

requires variation you have to try things differently right

things differently right

things differently right and in manufacturing six sigma all that

and in manufacturing six sigma all that

and in manufacturing six sigma all that stuff

stuff

stuff you're trying to reduce variation the

you're trying to reduce variation the

you're trying to reduce variation the fundamental manufacturing paradigm

fundamental manufacturing paradigm

fundamental manufacturing paradigm is to reduce variation and the

is to reduce variation and the

is to reduce variation and the fundamental creative innovation paradigm

fundamental creative innovation paradigm

fundamental creative innovation paradigm is to increase uh variation but we

is to increase uh variation but we

is to increase uh variation but we haven't rethought all the other things

haven't rethought all the other things

haven't rethought all the other things like freedom and the things we're

like freedom and the things we're

like freedom and the things we're talking about

talking about

talking about from the industrial era so we've still

from the industrial era so we've still

from the industrial era so we've still got lots of post-industrial thinking

got lots of post-industrial thinking

got lots of post-industrial thinking or industrial thinking influencing how

or industrial thinking influencing how

or industrial thinking influencing how creative organizations are run

creative organizations are run

creative organizations are run and again all that stuff is good for

and again all that stuff is good for

and again all that stuff is good for industrial companies

industrial companies

industrial companies and i'm glad they do that for running a

and i'm glad they do that for running a

and i'm glad they do that for running a factory

factory

factory but for creative companies it all that

but for creative companies it all that

but for creative companies it all that needs to be really rethought

needs to be really rethought

needs to be really rethought and and this is just starting that

and and this is just starting that

and and this is just starting that conversation

conversation

conversation how much of your model is dependent on

how much of your model is dependent on

how much of your model is dependent on not that many other people

not that many other people

not that many other people following it i mean just to take the

following it i mean just to take the

following it i mean just to take the policy of

policy of

policy of paying a top of market if every company

paying a top of market if every company

paying a top of market if every company did that

did that

did that uh you get massive pay inflation

uh you get massive pay inflation

uh you get massive pay inflation um why why are you releasing the secret

um why why are you releasing the secret

um why why are you releasing the secret you actually don't want other companies

you actually don't want other companies

you actually don't want other companies to

to

to to do this let's think about major

to do this let's think about major

to do this let's think about major league sports

league sports

league sports okay then it's open and competitive and

okay then it's open and competitive and

okay then it's open and competitive and um and athletes do move between teams

um and athletes do move between teams

um and athletes do move between teams and there's

and there's

and there's um and people are paid top of their

um and people are paid top of their

um and people are paid top of their market you know when they switch teams

market you know when they switch teams

market you know when they switch teams and

and

and and that generates incredible amount of

and that generates incredible amount of

and that generates incredible amount of athleticism and ratings

athleticism and ratings

athleticism and ratings and so just because our competitors are

and so just because our competitors are

and so just because our competitors are also paying top of market doesn't you

also paying top of market doesn't you

also paying top of market doesn't you know

know

know or even move the market doesn't ruin it

or even move the market doesn't ruin it

or even move the market doesn't ruin it for everybody else makes it great for

for everybody else makes it great for

for everybody else makes it great for employees

employees

employees but if your macro question is um you

but if your macro question is um you

but if your macro question is um you know

know

know this could be a great trade secret

this could be a great trade secret

this could be a great trade secret advantage all the things you do

advantage all the things you do

advantage all the things you do um you know why share it at all

um you know why share it at all

um you know why share it at all and we did debate that but the challenge

and we did debate that but the challenge

and we did debate that but the challenge is we want to make sure

is we want to make sure

is we want to make sure new candidates really know what they're

new candidates really know what they're

new candidates really know what they're getting into it's not fair to

getting into it's not fair to

getting into it's not fair to hire them and not tell them and so

hire them and not tell them and so

hire them and not tell them and so that's

that's

that's when we release the original culture

when we release the original culture

when we release the original culture memo uh 10 12 years ago

memo uh 10 12 years ago

memo uh 10 12 years ago culture deck um that was for candidates

culture deck um that was for candidates

culture deck um that was for candidates and we knew if we're going to give it to

and we knew if we're going to give it to

and we knew if we're going to give it to all these candidates of course it's

all these candidates of course it's

all these candidates of course it's going to get out and get public

going to get out and get public

going to get out and get public so you know it's the operating openly in

so you know it's the operating openly in

so you know it's the operating openly in this way

this way

this way is required really for our employees or

is required really for our employees or

is required really for our employees or our candidates to know what they're

our candidates to know what they're

our candidates to know what they're getting in for

getting in for

getting in for you had a wonderful partner in crime in

you had a wonderful partner in crime in

you had a wonderful partner in crime in terms of developing these ideas and

terms of developing these ideas and

terms of developing these ideas and putting out that culture deck

putting out that culture deck

putting out that culture deck and and so forth who who was that talk a

and and so forth who who was that talk a

and and so forth who who was that talk a bit about her

bit about her

bit about her sure patty mccord um was

sure patty mccord um was

sure patty mccord um was our long time and founding uh head of hr

our long time and founding uh head of hr

our long time and founding uh head of hr um and i had worked with her also back

um and i had worked with her also back

um and i had worked with her also back at pure software so earlier so we had a

at pure software so earlier so we had a

at pure software so earlier so we had a great uh relationship

great uh relationship

great uh relationship and which she's very willing to rethink

and which she's very willing to rethink

and which she's very willing to rethink things she's very untraditional

things she's very untraditional

things she's very untraditional she had grown up in traditional hr at

she had grown up in traditional hr at

she had grown up in traditional hr at all the classic companies

all the classic companies

all the classic companies um but she really thought there's a new

um but she really thought there's a new

um but she really thought there's a new ways and fresh ways to do things

ways and fresh ways to do things

ways and fresh ways to do things um and so she's been a major driver of

um and so she's been a major driver of

um and so she's been a major driver of that

that

that um and then um by probably

um and then um by probably

um and then um by probably 2012 she had been you know with us for

2012 she had been you know with us for

2012 she had been you know with us for 13 or 14 years

13 or 14 years

13 or 14 years um it wasn't working as well for us

um it wasn't working as well for us

um it wasn't working as well for us and we had a lot of uh discussions about

and we had a lot of uh discussions about

and we had a lot of uh discussions about it back to the feedback and living it

it back to the feedback and living it

it back to the feedback and living it and she was like you know if you really

and she was like you know if you really

and she was like you know if you really feel that way you know

feel that way you know

feel that way you know you should get someone else and we

you should get someone else and we

you should get someone else and we realized that was true

realized that was true

realized that was true um and uh you know she left with our

um and uh you know she left with our

um and uh you know she left with our generous severance package and some

generous severance package and some

generous severance package and some people were shocked

people were shocked

people were shocked but um it for her and for me it was just

but um it for her and for me it was just

but um it for her and for me it was just living the culture wow and the fact that

living the culture wow and the fact that

living the culture wow and the fact that you're saying this now

you're saying this now

you're saying this now um is is an amazing example of

um is is an amazing example of

um is is an amazing example of what you how you believe canada should

what you how you believe canada should

what you how you believe canada should be done that like most

be done that like most

be done that like most organizations if someone leaves there's

organizations if someone leaves there's

organizations if someone leaves there's there's a bit of a dance and a song and

there's a bit of a dance and a song and

there's a bit of a dance and a song and a story is created and all the rest of

a story is created and all the rest of

a story is created and all the rest of it

it

it your recommendation is say say it like

your recommendation is say say it like

your recommendation is say say it like it is

it is

it is yeah and people respect again you know

yeah and people respect again you know

yeah and people respect again you know there's a tension between

there's a tension between

there's a tension between kindness and honesty we really we admire

kindness and honesty we really we admire

kindness and honesty we really we admire both of those

both of those

both of those okay so we're not trying to be unkind

okay so we're not trying to be unkind

okay so we're not trying to be unkind but we want to give each other

but we want to give each other

but we want to give each other permission to be honest

permission to be honest

permission to be honest and thoughtful and you know uh

and thoughtful and you know uh

and thoughtful and you know uh but not not cruel not uh brutal

but not not cruel not uh brutal

but not not cruel not uh brutal uh we don't that's a those are all

uh we don't that's a those are all

uh we don't that's a those are all negatives but you can be

negatives but you can be

negatives but you can be honest um and respectful um

honest um and respectful um

honest um and respectful um and people do respect them reid

and people do respect them reid

and people do respect them reid what would you say to

what would you say to

what would you say to people who say you're missing an

people who say you're missing an

people who say you're missing an absolutely key piece of

absolutely key piece of

absolutely key piece of um um what it takes

um um what it takes

um um what it takes to run a team in you know the 21st

to run a team in you know the 21st

to run a team in you know the 21st century

century

century which is to be much more obsessed about

which is to be much more obsessed about

which is to be much more obsessed about diversity that traditionally

diversity that traditionally

diversity that traditionally uh creative industries have been run by

uh creative industries have been run by

uh creative industries have been run by you know a sort of elite well-educated

you know a sort of elite well-educated

you know a sort of elite well-educated often white sort of

often white sort of

often white sort of you know group of of of creatives um

you know group of of of creatives um

you know group of of of creatives um do you how much of an emphasis should

do you how much of an emphasis should

do you how much of an emphasis should there be

there be

there be on diversity and and can that actually

on diversity and and can that actually

on diversity and and can that actually further improve performance i think it

further improve performance i think it

further improve performance i think it can and

can and

can and it's a big focus uh for us and of course

it's a big focus uh for us and of course

it's a big focus uh for us and of course for for other firms

for for other firms

for for other firms um starting several years ago um and

um starting several years ago um and

um starting several years ago um and it's part of a cultural

it's part of a cultural

it's part of a cultural evolution of how do we be more inclusive

evolution of how do we be more inclusive

evolution of how do we be more inclusive of different ways of being of course

of different ways of being of course

of different ways of being of course there's race and gender

there's race and gender

there's race and gender sexual orientation but also nationality

sexual orientation but also nationality

sexual orientation but also nationality we're a company now that's about

we're a company now that's about

we're a company now that's about one-third u.s

one-third u.s

one-third u.s customers two-third not in the u.s

customers two-third not in the u.s

customers two-third not in the u.s and we're trying to build up our

and we're trying to build up our

and we're trying to build up our management team outside of the u.s in

management team outside of the u.s in

management team outside of the u.s in the same way

the same way

the same way we're hiring and developing our leaders

we're hiring and developing our leaders

we're hiring and developing our leaders of color

of color

of color of our top 20 people uh we're

of our top 20 people uh we're

of our top 20 people uh we're half men half women so we're we it took

half men half women so we're we it took

half men half women so we're we it took us a while to get there but you know

us a while to get there but you know

us a while to get there but you know we've got there now

we've got there now

we've got there now we're 25 leaders of color um

we're 25 leaders of color um

we're 25 leaders of color um so uh you know we're making a big

so uh you know we're making a big

so uh you know we're making a big difference in that

difference in that

difference in that and trying just to continue to say what

and trying just to continue to say what

and trying just to continue to say what can we do more in this dimension but i

can we do more in this dimension but i

can we do more in this dimension but i i think it's a long overdue incredibly

i think it's a long overdue incredibly

i think it's a long overdue incredibly important

important

important um and it's been a big focus for us

um and it's been a big focus for us

um and it's been a big focus for us and how easy or hard have you found it

and how easy or hard have you found it

and how easy or hard have you found it to take your culture

to take your culture

to take your culture globally um it depends where so

globally um it depends where so

globally um it depends where so um you know the more similar the

um you know the more similar the

um you know the more similar the underlying culture is

underlying culture is

underlying culture is like the dutch are very direct and you

like the dutch are very direct and you

like the dutch are very direct and you know that works well

know that works well

know that works well and then the english have a kind of odd

and then the english have a kind of odd

and then the english have a kind of odd like reverse sarcasm thing they do

like reverse sarcasm thing they do

like reverse sarcasm thing they do and they're trying to like you know give

and they're trying to like you know give

and they're trying to like you know give you feedback and

you feedback and

you feedback and you know faint breaks so

you know faint breaks so

you know faint breaks so and then you know the japanese expect

and then you know the japanese expect

and then you know the japanese expect you to be able to read the air

you to be able to read the air

you to be able to read the air and it's like you know wait you said

and it's like you know wait you said

and it's like you know wait you said this and it's like no you weren't direct

this and it's like no you weren't direct

this and it's like no you weren't direct because we're so direct and the

because we're so direct and the

because we're so direct and the brazilians are so relationship oriented

brazilians are so relationship oriented

brazilians are so relationship oriented so

so

so the the world is really wonderfully

the the world is really wonderfully

the the world is really wonderfully unique

unique

unique and so what we try to do is is have our

and so what we try to do is is have our

and so what we try to do is is have our americans recognize

americans recognize

americans recognize they have one way it's not the only way

they have one way it's not the only way

they have one way it's not the only way and that we all need to learn how to

and that we all need to learn how to

and that we all need to learn how to communicate effectively together

communicate effectively together

communicate effectively together and that's kind of everybody learning

and that's kind of everybody learning

and that's kind of everybody learning from each other

from each other

from each other and then meeting each other part way

and then meeting each other part way

and then meeting each other part way there's one other thing that you don't

there's one other thing that you don't

there's one other thing that you don't talk about

talk about

talk about um that surprised me a bit it just in

um that surprised me a bit it just in

um that surprised me a bit it just in terms of attracting and holding talent

terms of attracting and holding talent

terms of attracting and holding talent you talk a lot about paying a lot

you talk a lot about paying a lot

you talk a lot about paying a lot um you don't talk much about mission um

um you don't talk much about mission um

um you don't talk much about mission um isn't

isn't

isn't unlike someone like elon musk would say

unlike someone like elon musk would say

unlike someone like elon musk would say um

um

um you know the reason i can hire some of

you know the reason i can hire some of

you know the reason i can hire some of the world's best engineers

the world's best engineers

the world's best engineers is because you know they're part of the

is because you know they're part of the

is because you know they're part of the creating a sustainable future etc um

creating a sustainable future etc um

creating a sustainable future etc um is is mission not just as important as

is is mission not just as important as

is is mission not just as important as how much you pay people

how much you pay people

how much you pay people no i think it is um you know uh for us

no i think it is um you know uh for us

no i think it is um you know uh for us it's entertain the world and

it's entertain the world and

it's entertain the world and you know how do we bring people together

you know how do we bring people together

you know how do we bring people together through all of the stories that we tell

through all of the stories that we tell

through all of the stories that we tell um and that plays a significant role but

um and that plays a significant role but

um and that plays a significant role but i think people also want to be

i think people also want to be

i think people also want to be stimulated on they want to grow in their

stimulated on they want to grow in their

stimulated on they want to grow in their career

career

career you know there's a number of things they

you know there's a number of things they

you know there's a number of things they want and we wouldn't want

want and we wouldn't want

want and we wouldn't want mission to be used as a like a way to

mission to be used as a like a way to

mission to be used as a like a way to pay people less basically um so

pay people less basically um so

pay people less basically um so but they're they're both super important

but they're they're both super important

but they're they're both super important reed you've made a fortune from netflix

reed you've made a fortune from netflix

reed you've made a fortune from netflix and have become

an innovative and generous

an innovative and generous

an innovative and generous philanthropist

philanthropist

philanthropist talk just a bit about how you think

talk just a bit about how you think

talk just a bit about how you think about your

about your

about your philanthropy and whether whether you've

philanthropy and whether whether you've

philanthropy and whether whether you've come up with

come up with

come up with some sort of uh equally radical

some sort of uh equally radical

some sort of uh equally radical principles if you like to guide how you

principles if you like to guide how you

principles if you like to guide how you think about the right way to do

think about the right way to do

think about the right way to do philanthropy

philanthropy

philanthropy uh i'd have to say i'm still very much

uh i'd have to say i'm still very much

uh i'd have to say i'm still very much learning mode

learning mode

learning mode um i've been doing a philanthropy for 20

um i've been doing a philanthropy for 20

um i've been doing a philanthropy for 20 years

years

years in one particular area which is around

in one particular area which is around

in one particular area which is around charter public schools

charter public schools

charter public schools but i'm just learning on a more broad

but i'm just learning on a more broad

but i'm just learning on a more broad basis on

basis on

basis on uh kind of african farmers or u.s

uh kind of african farmers or u.s

uh kind of african farmers or u.s college

college

college education um you know from my peer group

education um you know from my peer group

education um you know from my peer group and i've still you know i'm still

and i've still you know i'm still

and i've still you know i'm still so excited by netflix and growing

so excited by netflix and growing

so excited by netflix and growing netflix that you know it's still i'm in

netflix that you know it's still i'm in

netflix that you know it's still i'm in the phase where it's a slice of time

the phase where it's a slice of time

the phase where it's a slice of time but i i want it to be growing and that's

but i i want it to be growing and that's

but i i want it to be growing and that's why

why

why i feel so good about promoting ted

i feel so good about promoting ted

i feel so good about promoting ted sarandos to co-ceo

sarandos to co-ceo

sarandos to co-ceo and you know sharing that load with me

and you know sharing that load with me

and you know sharing that load with me which will give me a little more time on

which will give me a little more time on

which will give me a little more time on philanthropy eventually

philanthropy eventually

philanthropy eventually um so uh i'm i'm a beginner still

um so uh i'm i'm a beginner still

um so uh i'm i'm a beginner still in that field um but very active um

in that field um but very active um

in that field um but very active um and then and i find it very satisfying

and then and i find it very satisfying

and then and i find it very satisfying i mean we're in a economic structure

i mean we're in a economic structure

i mean we're in a economic structure right now where it seems that

right now where it seems that

right now where it seems that inequality will continue to grow meaning

inequality will continue to grow meaning

inequality will continue to grow meaning that certainly that those the wealthy

that certainly that those the wealthy

that certainly that those the wealthy will probably continue to get

will probably continue to get

will probably continue to get even wealthier i mean do you feel

even wealthier i mean do you feel

even wealthier i mean do you feel that there is how do you think about the

that there is how do you think about the

that there is how do you think about the obligation of that how do you think

obligation of that how do you think

obligation of that how do you think about the opportunity of that

about the opportunity of that

about the opportunity of that is that is is there almost um is there

is that is is there almost um is there

is that is is there almost um is there more

more

more should there be more conversation about

should there be more conversation about

should there be more conversation about you know given the vast amounts of cap

you know given the vast amounts of cap

you know given the vast amounts of cap private capital that are sitting out

private capital that are sitting out

private capital that are sitting out there now

there now

there now about the best way to deploy that

about the best way to deploy that

about the best way to deploy that um versus for example just

um versus for example just

um versus for example just revolutionizing the tax structure and

revolutionizing the tax structure and

revolutionizing the tax structure and you know giving it more to governments

you know giving it more to governments

you know giving it more to governments to spend how do you how do you think

to spend how do you how do you think

to spend how do you how do you think about that

about that

about that yeah i mean inequality is growing but

yeah i mean inequality is growing but

yeah i mean inequality is growing but it's just a policy choice

it's just a policy choice

it's just a policy choice um you know if the people and the

um you know if the people and the

um you know if the people and the government

government

government wanted to do sufficient taxation and

wanted to do sufficient taxation and

wanted to do sufficient taxation and then

then

then have uh you know free public health care

have uh you know free public health care

have uh you know free public health care free public universities

free public universities

free public universities then you'd see a you know a more equal

then you'd see a you know a more equal

then you'd see a you know a more equal society

society

society and america relatively uniquely in the

and america relatively uniquely in the

and america relatively uniquely in the world has always had the tradition of

world has always had the tradition of

world has always had the tradition of very high on freedom and less on

very high on freedom and less on

very high on freedom and less on equality whereas our european colleagues

equality whereas our european colleagues

equality whereas our european colleagues have

have

have much more equal societies um

much more equal societies um

much more equal societies um but then we have a high inheritance tax

but then we have a high inheritance tax

but then we have a high inheritance tax and generally europeans don't

and generally europeans don't

and generally europeans don't so there's some cases where we're more

so there's some cases where we're more

so there's some cases where we're more egalitarian

egalitarian

egalitarian and i think all of us are trying to

and i think all of us are trying to

and i think all of us are trying to learn how do you have a great society

learn how do you have a great society

learn how do you have a great society one that we're proud of

one that we're proud of

one that we're proud of um one that's uh prosperous uh

um one that's uh prosperous uh

um one that's uh prosperous uh and provides people you know with with

and provides people you know with with

and provides people you know with with real nourishment

real nourishment

real nourishment reid why did you have a co-author on

reid why did you have a co-author on

reid why did you have a co-author on this book

this book

this book well over the years i've read so many

well over the years i've read so many

well over the years i've read so many ceo pontification books

ceo pontification books

ceo pontification books and i've often wondered yeah i wonder

and i've often wondered yeah i wonder

and i've often wondered yeah i wonder what the reality is in the company

what the reality is in the company

what the reality is in the company that all sounds good but you know i'm a

that all sounds good but you know i'm a

that all sounds good but you know i'm a little skeptical

little skeptical

little skeptical and so we wanted to address that so we

and so we wanted to address that so we

and so we wanted to address that so we hired a very independent voice and

hired a very independent voice and

hired a very independent voice and accomplished business school professor

accomplished business school professor

accomplished business school professor and author

and author

and author aaron meyer to interview over a hundred

aaron meyer to interview over a hundred

aaron meyer to interview over a hundred mid-level netflix employees around the

mid-level netflix employees around the

mid-level netflix employees around the world

world

world and then to write honestly their view

and then to write honestly their view

and then to write honestly their view so the book somewhat is me doing the

so the book somewhat is me doing the

so the book somewhat is me doing the theory

theory

theory and her doing the reality as she found

and her doing the reality as she found

and her doing the reality as she found it

it

it and that tension uh is part of what

and that tension uh is part of what

and that tension uh is part of what gives the book

gives the book

gives the book its interest yes that really comes

its interest yes that really comes

its interest yes that really comes through

through

through i think she says herself that when she

i think she says herself that when she

i think she says herself that when she first saw

first saw

first saw the netflix culture deck several years

the netflix culture deck several years

the netflix culture deck several years ago she reacted badly to it she thought

ago she reacted badly to it she thought

ago she reacted badly to it she thought oh my goodness this is a recipe for a

oh my goodness this is a recipe for a

oh my goodness this is a recipe for a toxic culture and uh you want her over

toxic culture and uh you want her over

toxic culture and uh you want her over to participate and i i think persuaded

to participate and i i think persuaded

to participate and i i think persuaded her a lot of the wisdom of what

her a lot of the wisdom of what

her a lot of the wisdom of what you know what you've created there well

you know what you've created there well

you know what you've created there well she's been a great

she's been a great

she's been a great uh teacher um and she gave the book

uh teacher um and she gave the book

uh teacher um and she gave the book really all of its readability so at the

really all of its readability so at the

really all of its readability so at the heart of your idea

heart of your idea

heart of your idea is hiring truly great creative people

is hiring truly great creative people

is hiring truly great creative people and then giving them

and then giving them

and then giving them a lot of freedom they can work whatever

a lot of freedom they can work whatever

a lot of freedom they can work whatever hours they want take whatever vacation

hours they want take whatever vacation

hours they want take whatever vacation they

they

they want manage their own expense policy etc

want manage their own expense policy etc

want manage their own expense policy etc um for that to work don't you have to

um for that to work don't you have to

um for that to work don't you have to have

have

have some kind of pretty robust way of

some kind of pretty robust way of

some kind of pretty robust way of knowing

knowing

knowing whether they're being effective and

whether they're being effective and

whether they're being effective and creative work is notoriously hard to

creative work is notoriously hard to

creative work is notoriously hard to measure in some ways like is that

measure in some ways like is that

measure in some ways like is that actually working

actually working

actually working how can you tell who's actually being

how can you tell who's actually being

how can you tell who's actually being effective and

effective and

effective and and who is a superstar and who actually

and who is a superstar and who actually

and who is a superstar and who actually should be given the generous package and

should be given the generous package and

should be given the generous package and asked to leave

asked to leave

asked to leave it is super hard uh with creative work

it is super hard uh with creative work

it is super hard uh with creative work because

because

because it often takes a couple years to play

it often takes a couple years to play

it often takes a couple years to play out if this new idea

out if this new idea

out if this new idea is something so uh where it's measurable

is something so uh where it's measurable

is something so uh where it's measurable we try to measure it

we try to measure it

we try to measure it but that might only be like half i would

but that might only be like half i would

but that might only be like half i would say of the creative choices that we make

say of the creative choices that we make

say of the creative choices that we make like

like

like you could look at two shows and see

you could look at two shows and see

you could look at two shows and see which one got a big audience

which one got a big audience

which one got a big audience okay or you can a b test something on

okay or you can a b test something on

okay or you can a b test something on the service so that helps

the service so that helps

the service so that helps but in many parts of the company like

but in many parts of the company like

but in many parts of the company like let's say hr

let's say hr

let's say hr when we're creative and we have a new

when we're creative and we have a new

when we're creative and we have a new policy is it better or is it not

policy is it better or is it not

policy is it better or is it not we just have to use judgment and leaning

we just have to use judgment and leaning

we just have to use judgment and leaning into that

into that

into that and then we would talk about it you know

and then we would talk about it you know

and then we would talk about it you know did this thing work out

did this thing work out

did this thing work out or you know generally are these ideas

or you know generally are these ideas

or you know generally are these ideas working out

working out

working out so it's it's imperfect i'm sure we're

so it's it's imperfect i'm sure we're

so it's it's imperfect i'm sure we're making some mistakes in it

making some mistakes in it

making some mistakes in it um but if you try to if you lean into

um but if you try to if you lean into

um but if you try to if you lean into judgment

judgment

judgment i think it works well so one of the

i think it works well so one of the

i think it works well so one of the super talents you're trying to recruit

super talents you're trying to recruit

super talents you're trying to recruit for is actually people with the

for is actually people with the

for is actually people with the capability of providing

capability of providing

capability of providing sophisticated judgment of of others and

sophisticated judgment of of others and

sophisticated judgment of of others and really getting a sense of

really getting a sense of

really getting a sense of whether they have the goods or not

whether they have the goods or not

whether they have the goods or not absolutely and

absolutely and

absolutely and for ted and i as co-ceos it's paramount

for ted and i as co-ceos it's paramount

for ted and i as co-ceos it's paramount for us

for us

for us to ultimately have good judgment of are

to ultimately have good judgment of are

to ultimately have good judgment of are we going in the right direction going

we going in the right direction going

we going in the right direction going after the

after the

after the the right customers with the right

the right customers with the right

the right customers with the right approach so there's a lot of judgment

approach so there's a lot of judgment

approach so there's a lot of judgment from us

from us

from us also and so just um

also and so just um

also and so just um i think i just want to end by asking you

i think i just want to end by asking you

i think i just want to end by asking you a bit about the future

a bit about the future

a bit about the future of netflix um you know we've best just

of netflix um you know we've best just

of netflix um you know we've best just been through this

been through this

been through this pandemic where many people have

pandemic where many people have

pandemic where many people have transferred a huge amount of time from

transferred a huge amount of time from

transferred a huge amount of time from the physical world to the virtual world

the physical world to the virtual world

the physical world to the virtual world we've spent

we've spent

we've spent all this time on screens and zoo

all this time on screens and zoo

all this time on screens and zoo meetings watching

meetings watching

meetings watching netflix and other services

netflix and other services

netflix and other services and um some people say they're sick of

and um some people say they're sick of

and um some people say they're sick of it i think other people are shocked by

it i think other people are shocked by

it i think other people are shocked by how good parts of it have been that they

how good parts of it have been that they

how good parts of it have been that they you know wow you know and they've almost

you know wow you know and they've almost

you know wow you know and they've almost seen that

seen that

seen that the future could be permanently

the future could be permanently

the future could be permanently different

different

different could the future be permanently

could the future be permanently

could the future be permanently different how would you

different how would you

different how would you like it to be permanently different and

like it to be permanently different and

like it to be permanently different and what you dreaming about in terms of how

what you dreaming about in terms of how

what you dreaming about in terms of how you could contribute to that

you could contribute to that

you could contribute to that difference so covet has accelerated and

difference so covet has accelerated and

difference so covet has accelerated and worked from home in particular

worked from home in particular

worked from home in particular our use of video conferencing

our use of video conferencing

our use of video conferencing significantly it's been the dream

significantly it's been the dream

significantly it's been the dream of work for you know 30 years that you

of work for you know 30 years that you

of work for you know 30 years that you could

could

could you know work from home and have you

you know work from home and have you

you know work from home and have you know be in wyoming or

know be in wyoming or

know be in wyoming or the alps and you know and do your job

the alps and you know and do your job

the alps and you know and do your job but the technology

but the technology

but the technology has not been good enough and it's only

has not been good enough and it's only

has not been good enough and it's only barely good enough now

barely good enough now

barely good enough now so but it will continue to improve so

so but it will continue to improve so

so but it will continue to improve so think of it as it's a journey we're

think of it as it's a journey we're

think of it as it's a journey we're moving towards that

moving towards that

moving towards that uh and kovit has accelerated it

uh and kovit has accelerated it

uh and kovit has accelerated it and moved it more into the mainstream

and moved it more into the mainstream

and moved it more into the mainstream um but it would have happened anyway it

um but it would have happened anyway it

um but it would have happened anyway it would have just taken a few more years

would have just taken a few more years

would have just taken a few more years so uh i think mostly postcovid people

so uh i think mostly postcovid people

so uh i think mostly postcovid people will go back to

will go back to

will go back to bars and restaurants and sports events

bars and restaurants and sports events

bars and restaurants and sports events and movie theaters and you know a lot of

and movie theaters and you know a lot of

and movie theaters and you know a lot of our life will be pretty similar but

our life will be pretty similar but

our life will be pretty similar but it'll be a little more flexible

it'll be a little more flexible

it'll be a little more flexible in terms of doing video meetings and

in terms of doing video meetings and

in terms of doing video meetings and what's

what's

what's the role of netflix in this future are

the role of netflix in this future are

the role of netflix in this future are you are you

you are you

you are you pretty determined to to keep the main

pretty determined to to keep the main

pretty determined to to keep the main focus on

focus on

focus on pre-recorded content whether it's tv

pre-recorded content whether it's tv

pre-recorded content whether it's tv shows or movies or are there

shows or movies or are there

shows or movies or are there debates and dreams afoot in the company

debates and dreams afoot in the company

debates and dreams afoot in the company to expand beyond that for example into

to expand beyond that for example into

to expand beyond that for example into interactivity i think i think video

interactivity i think i think video

interactivity i think i think video games in general have been a huge

games in general have been a huge

games in general have been a huge uh winner in the uh in the pandemic and

uh winner in the uh in the pandemic and

uh winner in the uh in the pandemic and people a lot of people have just got

people a lot of people have just got

people a lot of people have just got lost in these sort of virtual

lost in these sort of virtual

lost in these sort of virtual worlds do you have a role to play in

worlds do you have a role to play in

worlds do you have a role to play in that or in other areas that you're

that or in other areas that you're

that or in other areas that you're dreaming about

dreaming about

dreaming about you know we're really focused in the joy

you know we're really focused in the joy

you know we're really focused in the joy in people's lives and

in people's lives and

in people's lives and uh creating that sense of escape and

uh creating that sense of escape and

uh creating that sense of escape and connection

connection

connection um that that all of us use entertainment

um that that all of us use entertainment

um that that all of us use entertainment for so

for so

for so not really doing news uh you know not

not really doing news uh you know not

not really doing news uh you know not teaching calculus

teaching calculus

teaching calculus but many people find the joy from

but many people find the joy from

but many people find the joy from learning something new from a

learning something new from a

learning something new from a documentary about

documentary about

documentary about an issue from coming to understanding

an issue from coming to understanding

an issue from coming to understanding and so

and so

and so we're definitely doing a lot of

we're definitely doing a lot of

we're definitely doing a lot of documentary and non-fiction programming

documentary and non-fiction programming

documentary and non-fiction programming um and then fun things that could be

um and then fun things that could be

um and then fun things that could be real time or not

real time or not

real time or not like uh flores lava you know and says

like uh flores lava you know and says

like uh flores lava you know and says competition show

competition show

competition show that's uh very cute and then there's of

that's uh very cute and then there's of

that's uh very cute and then there's of course just great epic entertainment

course just great epic entertainment

course just great epic entertainment great filmed entertainment

great filmed entertainment

great filmed entertainment and today we do some interactive

and today we do some interactive

and today we do some interactive entertainment

entertainment

entertainment that's you know you can kind of choose

that's you know you can kind of choose

that's you know you can kind of choose your own adventure style where you

your own adventure style where you

your own adventure style where you you get to you know figure out what you

you get to you know figure out what you

you get to you know figure out what you want to do that uh

want to do that uh

want to do that uh we've done with bandersnatch so we'll do

we've done with bandersnatch so we'll do

we've done with bandersnatch so we'll do more of that

more of that

more of that not sure on video gaming's probably you

not sure on video gaming's probably you

not sure on video gaming's probably you know nothing in the short term but

know nothing in the short term but

know nothing in the short term but um you know maybe eventually something

um you know maybe eventually something

um you know maybe eventually something in that space

in that space

in that space um uh right now where it's console based

um uh right now where it's console based

um uh right now where it's console based and you know it's pretty specific it's

and you know it's pretty specific it's

and you know it's pretty specific it's pretty specific in terms of

pretty specific in terms of

pretty specific in terms of who uses it um and uh

who uses it um and uh

who uses it um and uh you know it's not as general as movies

you know it's not as general as movies

you know it's not as general as movies and series in terms of its cultural

and series in terms of its cultural

and series in terms of its cultural uh breadth um so there's you know a lot

uh breadth um so there's you know a lot

uh breadth um so there's you know a lot going on in entertainment

going on in entertainment

going on in entertainment do you care or measure

do you care or measure

do you care or measure different if you like benefits of

different if you like benefits of

different if you like benefits of entertainment i mean

entertainment i mean

entertainment i mean there's definitely a lot of joy a lot of

there's definitely a lot of joy a lot of

there's definitely a lot of joy a lot of sort of

sort of

sort of compulsive viewing binge viewing um

compulsive viewing binge viewing um

compulsive viewing binge viewing um that you've you've driven

that you've you've driven

that you've you've driven documentaries you could argue people

documentaries you could argue people

documentaries you could argue people learn from and there's a sort of

learn from and there's a sort of

learn from and there's a sort of educational role

educational role

educational role other forms of entertainment maybe bring

other forms of entertainment maybe bring

other forms of entertainment maybe bring families together do you have is there

families together do you have is there

families together do you have is there any sort of discussion internally about

any sort of discussion internally about

any sort of discussion internally about like there are certain things that that

like there are certain things that that

like there are certain things that that you you give yourself especially big

you you give yourself especially big

you you give yourself especially big bonus checks for um i don't mean

bonus checks for um i don't mean

bonus checks for um i don't mean literally but you know

literally but you know

literally but you know like check marks for um and that you try

like check marks for um and that you try

like check marks for um and that you try to incent

to incent

to incent or is it is it all you know if it adds

or is it is it all you know if it adds

or is it is it all you know if it adds up to

up to

up to new subscribers and more hours viewing

new subscribers and more hours viewing

new subscribers and more hours viewing then then it's

then then it's

then then it's all all the same how do you think about

all all the same how do you think about

all all the same how do you think about that so we think about it as trying to

that so we think about it as trying to

that so we think about it as trying to serve our members and um if a

serve our members and um if a

serve our members and um if a documentary

documentary

documentary uh is what our member chooses it we love

uh is what our member chooses it we love

uh is what our member chooses it we love it that much

it that much

it that much okay so uh and we try not to project

okay so uh and we try not to project

okay so uh and we try not to project our our own particular tastes you know

our our own particular tastes you know

our our own particular tastes you know which skew somewhat elite

which skew somewhat elite

which skew somewhat elite um and say this is good for you and and

um and say this is good for you and and

um and say this is good for you and and you know this is uh broccoli and this is

you know this is uh broccoli and this is

you know this is uh broccoli and this is ice cream

ice cream

ice cream um so you know we have ice cream on our

um so you know we have ice cream on our

um so you know we have ice cream on our service we have broccoli

service we have broccoli

service we have broccoli uh and we let people choose uh

uh and we let people choose uh

uh and we let people choose uh you know openly and value it by

you know openly and value it by

you know openly and value it by basically the proportion that it's

basically the proportion that it's

basically the proportion that it's chosen

chosen

chosen but don't people

criticize their own choices in

criticize their own choices in

criticize their own choices in retrospect as it were

retrospect as it were

retrospect as it were so often people like i have a habit

so often people like i have a habit

so often people like i have a habit of choosing ice cream whereas my

of choosing ice cream whereas my

of choosing ice cream whereas my beautiful wife

beautiful wife

beautiful wife chooses broccoli i actually after the

chooses broccoli i actually after the

chooses broccoli i actually after the experience of eating it feel healthier

experience of eating it feel healthier

experience of eating it feel healthier after the broccoli

after the broccoli

after the broccoli aka foreign language documentary uh

aka foreign language documentary uh

aka foreign language documentary uh whatever um then after the ice cream

whatever um then after the ice cream

whatever um then after the ice cream of some sci-fi or uh and you know comedy

of some sci-fi or uh and you know comedy

of some sci-fi or uh and you know comedy entertainment or whatever

entertainment or whatever

entertainment or whatever um do you do you do you ask people

um do you do you do you ask people

um do you do you do you ask people afterwards you know was was this time

afterwards you know was was this time

afterwards you know was was this time well spent are you happy what would you

well spent are you happy what would you

well spent are you happy what would you like more of this

like more of this

like more of this on netflix at all and is that a

on netflix at all and is that a

on netflix at all and is that a different is that a different algorithm

different is that a different algorithm

different is that a different algorithm it's not a different algorithm but i

it's not a different algorithm but i

it's not a different algorithm but i would say

would say

would say we do try to understand satisfaction um

we do try to understand satisfaction um

we do try to understand satisfaction um and what entertainment like if you ask

and what entertainment like if you ask

and what entertainment like if you ask people the

people the

people the what they remember from the past year of

what they remember from the past year of

what they remember from the past year of what they watched

what they watched

what they watched and then we do try to uh do more on

and then we do try to uh do more on

and then we do try to uh do more on shows that they remember okay which made

shows that they remember okay which made

shows that they remember okay which made an impact as opposed to

an impact as opposed to

an impact as opposed to past the time and you know but

past the time and you know but

past the time and you know but uh think of it as if it was really great

uh think of it as if it was really great

uh think of it as if it was really great ice cream

ice cream

ice cream and you could remember that taste of

and you could remember that taste of

and you could remember that taste of that strawberry ice cream on a summer

that strawberry ice cream on a summer

that strawberry ice cream on a summer day

day

day then that counts for us just as much as

then that counts for us just as much as

then that counts for us just as much as the broccoli

the broccoli

the broccoli so it's really about the emotional

so it's really about the emotional

so it's really about the emotional impact on the person

impact on the person

impact on the person that they can remember it well reid

that they can remember it well reid

that they can remember it well reid you've built an absolutely incredible

you've built an absolutely incredible

you've built an absolutely incredible company

company

company and i think these these principles are

and i think these these principles are

and i think these these principles are really

really

really really powerful i think lots of people

really powerful i think lots of people

really powerful i think lots of people are going to

are going to

are going to ponder what they can take from them and

ponder what they can take from them and

ponder what they can take from them and so congratulations on on a very very

so congratulations on on a very very

so congratulations on on a very very very

very

very provocative and easy to absorb book easy

provocative and easy to absorb book easy

provocative and easy to absorb book easy to absorb possibly hard to put into

to absorb possibly hard to put into

to absorb possibly hard to put into practice for some people

practice for some people

practice for some people well it'll stimulate the conversation of

well it'll stimulate the conversation of

well it'll stimulate the conversation of what's the best way to stimulate and

what's the best way to stimulate and

what's the best way to stimulate and support creativity

support creativity

support creativity and that's what we want to do and can't

and that's what we want to do and can't

and that's what we want to do and can't wait for no rules rules to get out there

wait for no rules rules to get out there

wait for no rules rules to get out there thanks so much for this time it's been

thanks so much for this time it's been

thanks so much for this time it's been absolutely fascinating to hear from you

absolutely fascinating to hear from you

absolutely fascinating to hear from you awesome chris thank you