How to pronounce "leon"

you're watching how to be a better human

you're watching how to be a better human

you're watching how to be a better human I am your host Chris Duffy and today

I am your host Chris Duffy and today

I am your host Chris Duffy and today we're talking about money with Paco Deon

we're talking about money with Paco Deon

we're talking about money with Paco Deon who is both a musician and a finance

who is both a musician and a finance

who is both a musician and a finance person Paco marries the world of

person Paco marries the world of

person Paco marries the world of creativity and Artistry with practical

creativity and Artistry with practical

creativity and Artistry with practical Financial advice that anyone can follow

Financial advice that anyone can follow

Financial advice that anyone can follow so even if you're not independently

so even if you're not independently

so even if you're not independently wealthy and if you are independently

wealthy and if you are independently

wealthy and if you are independently wealthy congratulations this video is

wealthy congratulations this video is

wealthy congratulations this video is actually probably not for you but for

actually probably not for you but for

actually probably not for you but for everyone else if you're trying to figure

everyone else if you're trying to figure

everyone else if you're trying to figure out how do you do something that you

out how do you do something that you

out how do you do something that you love while also paying your bills and

love while also paying your bills and

love while also paying your bills and keeping the lights on Paco has some

keeping the lights on Paco has some

keeping the lights on Paco has some great practical actionable advice about

great practical actionable advice about

great practical actionable advice about how we can be less weird about money

how we can be less weird about money

how we can be less weird about money still do the things that we want to do

still do the things that we want to do

still do the things that we want to do and make it all work at the end of the

and make it all work at the end of the

and make it all work at the end of the month here's a clip this might sound

month here's a clip this might sound

month here's a clip this might sound strange coming from a former financial

strange coming from a former financial

strange coming from a former financial planner but I'm not a fan of capitalism

planner but I'm not a fan of capitalism

planner but I'm not a fan of capitalism almost everyone I work with and know and

almost everyone I work with and know and

almost everyone I work with and know and love is an artist including me they

love is an artist including me they

love is an artist including me they often feel like focusing on money will

often feel like focusing on money will

often feel like focusing on money will corrupt their creativity or they think

corrupt their creativity or they think

corrupt their creativity or they think they're just not that good at making

they're just not that good at making

they're just not that good at making money anyway but the truth is we can be

money anyway but the truth is we can be

money anyway but the truth is we can be good at it and in fact we have to be

good at it and in fact we have to be

good at it and in fact we have to be because our freedom is at stake our

because our freedom is at stake our

because our freedom is at stake our freedom to create to influence and to

freedom to create to influence and to

freedom to create to influence and to use the power of money to change the

use the power of money to change the

use the power of money to change the very exploitation that keeps artists

very exploitation that keeps artists

very exploitation that keeps artists broke to begin with hi my name is Paco

broke to begin with hi my name is Paco

broke to begin with hi my name is Paco delion I am the author and illustrator

delion I am the author and illustrator

delion I am the author and illustrator of Finance for the People by day I help

of Finance for the People by day I help

of Finance for the People by day I help folks Not freak out about their finances

folks Not freak out about their finances

folks Not freak out about their finances and by night I am shredding the Nar on

and by night I am shredding the Nar on

and by night I am shredding the Nar on the guitar and I play in a band that's

the guitar and I play in a band that's

the guitar and I play in a band that's so good good that's so good okay that's

so good good that's so good okay that's

so good good that's so good okay that's so good that's actually a lie but you

so good that's actually a lie but you

so good that's actually a lie but you know I'm not always shredding the Nar

know I'm not always shredding the Nar

know I'm not always shredding the Nar whatever well now I got to ask uh what

whatever well now I got to ask uh what

whatever well now I got to ask uh what the LIE of shredding the Nar and the

the LIE of shredding the Nar and the

the LIE of shredding the Nar and the guitar is is it that you're not playing

guitar is is it that you're not playing

guitar is is it that you're not playing the guitar or you're not constantly

the guitar or you're not constantly

the guitar or you're not constantly shredding I'm not constantly shredding

shredding I'm not constantly shredding

shredding I'm not constantly shredding and you know like the more these kinds

and you know like the more these kinds

and you know like the more these kinds of cool opportunities pop up to like

of cool opportunities pop up to like

of cool opportunities pop up to like keep you know creating a a deeper path

keep you know creating a a deeper path

keep you know creating a a deeper path in like hey I'm this Finance person the

in like hey I'm this Finance person the

in like hey I'm this Finance person the more it pulls me away from like being

more it pulls me away from like being

more it pulls me away from like being able to do the music there's a

able to do the music there's a

able to do the music there's a responsibility to being creative that

responsibility to being creative that

responsibility to being creative that you have to

you have to

you have to arrange your entire life to please the

arrange your entire life to please the

arrange your entire life to please the gods of creativity to give you the gifts

gods of creativity to give you the gifts

gods of creativity to give you the gifts and then the other piece is like oh by

and then the other piece is like oh by

and then the other piece is like oh by the way I know a ton about finance

the way I know a ton about finance

the way I know a ton about finance and business how to read a p&l how to do

and business how to read a p&l how to do

and business how to read a p&l how to do your bookkeeping the best practices for

your bookkeeping the best practices for

your bookkeeping the best practices for you know not freaking out about taxes if

you know not freaking out about taxes if

you know not freaking out about taxes if you are a first year freelancer or 10

you are a first year freelancer or 10

you are a first year freelancer or 10 years in business it makes your writing

years in business it makes your writing

years in business it makes your writing and speaking about personal finance to

and speaking about personal finance to

and speaking about personal finance to me so powerful in your book Finance for

me so powerful in your book Finance for

me so powerful in your book Finance for the people getting a grip on your

the people getting a grip on your

the people getting a grip on your finances you start out right you frame

finances you start out right you frame

finances you start out right you frame the book by saying that money is a proxy

the book by saying that money is a proxy

the book by saying that money is a proxy for power and you talk about how

for power and you talk about how

for power and you talk about how important power is especially for people

important power is especially for people

important power is especially for people who may not necessarily think of

who may not necessarily think of

who may not necessarily think of themselves as powerful or or even want

themselves as powerful or or even want

themselves as powerful or or even want to be powerful because often power is

to be powerful because often power is

to be powerful because often power is associated with like forcing people to

associated with like forcing people to

associated with like forcing people to do things that they don't want to do or

do things that they don't want to do or

do things that they don't want to do or exploiting people and you talk about how

exploiting people and you talk about how

exploiting people and you talk about how as an artist right like we need to have

as an artist right like we need to have

as an artist right like we need to have the power to do our art we need to have

the power to do our art we need to have

the power to do our art we need to have the space and the time and the um the

the space and the time and the um the

the space and the time and the um the respect to do our art and that money is

respect to do our art and that money is

respect to do our art and that money is a way of getting those forms of power

a way of getting those forms of power

a way of getting those forms of power which are crucial to the actual work

which are crucial to the actual work

which are crucial to the actual work itself yeah absolutely money is just one

itself yeah absolutely money is just one

itself yeah absolutely money is just one form of currency and it's an important

form of currency and it's an important

form of currency and it's an important form of currency and you know for better

form of currency and you know for better

form of currency and you know for better for worse we just need we have to figure

for worse we just need we have to figure

for worse we just need we have to figure out that Financial aspect that financial

out that Financial aspect that financial

out that Financial aspect that financial piece um otherwise you're not going to

piece um otherwise you're not going to

piece um otherwise you're not going to have the energy you're not going to have

have the energy you're not going to have

have the energy you're not going to have the time you're not going to have the

the time you're not going to have the

the time you're not going to have the drive you're not going to have the space

drive you're not going to have the space

drive you're not going to have the space to put your message out in the world but

to put your message out in the world but

to put your message out in the world but you know I definitely look at managing

you know I definitely look at managing

you know I definitely look at managing your money figuring out your finances

your money figuring out your finances

your money figuring out your finances playing this game as just a opportunity

playing this game as just a opportunity

playing this game as just a opportunity to hold up a mirror and look at who you

to hold up a mirror and look at who you

to hold up a mirror and look at who you are and understand the way that you

are and understand the way that you

are and understand the way that you think and the way that you move in the

think and the way that you move in the

think and the way that you move in the world and notice those things and look

world and notice those things and look

world and notice those things and look at those patterns outside of money how

at those patterns outside of money how

at those patterns outside of money how are you interacting in the same way how

are you interacting in the same way how

are you interacting in the same way how do you have the same relationship with

do you have the same relationship with

do you have the same relationship with money and work and career and your

money and work and career and your

money and work and career and your business the way that you have with your

business the way that you have with your

business the way that you have with your mom or your strange sister or your

mom or your strange sister or your

mom or your strange sister or your partner um or your ideas of perfection

partner um or your ideas of perfection

partner um or your ideas of perfection or your ideas of Worth right and so for

or your ideas of Worth right and so for

or your ideas of Worth right and so for me I just look at money is just another

me I just look at money is just another

me I just look at money is just another way to explore who we are um I was

way to explore who we are um I was

way to explore who we are um I was struck by another line in in the intro

struck by another line in in the intro

struck by another line in in the intro to your book which feels I mean you're

to your book which feels I mean you're

to your book which feels I mean you're talking about it when you're talking

talking about it when you're talking

talking about it when you're talking about money but it feels like you could

about money but it feels like you could

about money but it feels like you could have written it about the process of of

have written it about the process of of

have written it about the process of of therapy and self-discovery too which is

therapy and self-discovery too which is

therapy and self-discovery too which is it's about feeling less Fragile by

it's about feeling less Fragile by

it's about feeling less Fragile by implementing strategies to help us cope

implementing strategies to help us cope

implementing strategies to help us cope and let go of the things outside our

and let go of the things outside our

and let go of the things outside our control now that's you talking about

control now that's you talking about

control now that's you talking about finances but that that could easily be a

finances but that that could easily be a

finances but that that could easily be a book in like a um an instructional

book in like a um an instructional

book in like a um an instructional manual for talk therapy yeah so you know

manual for talk therapy yeah so you know

manual for talk therapy yeah so you know at the risk of like sounding too much of

at the risk of like sounding too much of

at the risk of like sounding too much of a self-help junkie right there's

a self-help junkie right there's

a self-help junkie right there's different avenues for growth and

different avenues for growth and

different avenues for growth and progress like Fitness is a pretty common

progress like Fitness is a pretty common

progress like Fitness is a pretty common Journey like a lot of people who finally

Journey like a lot of people who finally

Journey like a lot of people who finally start eating right and caring about the

start eating right and caring about the

start eating right and caring about the quality of their sleep and you know

quality of their sleep and you know

quality of their sleep and you know exercising regularly and getting fresh

exercising regularly and getting fresh

exercising regularly and getting fresh air caring about their physical body

air caring about their physical body

air caring about their physical body they learn those patterns in that model

they learn those patterns in that model

they learn those patterns in that model and then you can take that as kind of

and then you can take that as kind of

and then you can take that as kind of like a stencil or blueprint and you can

like a stencil or blueprint and you can

like a stencil or blueprint and you can start to Overlay that in other areas of

start to Overlay that in other areas of

start to Overlay that in other areas of your life the other path is money A lot

your life the other path is money A lot

your life the other path is money A lot of people do it through money right

of people do it through money right

of people do it through money right they're they look at how they've been

they're they look at how they've been

they're they look at how they've been spending it how they haven't been saving

spending it how they haven't been saving

spending it how they haven't been saving it you know where they can find their

it you know where they can find their

it you know where they can find their agency look at the state of the damn

agency look at the state of the damn

agency look at the state of the damn world right now and be like it's really

world right now and be like it's really

world right now and be like it's really really really really simple and easy to

really really really simple and easy to

really really really simple and easy to find ways to numb out and to check out

find ways to numb out and to check out

find ways to numb out and to check out and just say it's all too much let's not

and just say it's all too much let's not

and just say it's all too much let's not give a single flying uh but to find

give a single flying uh but to find

give a single flying uh but to find power to find like we have some modum of

power to find like we have some modum of

power to find like we have some modum of control and focus there and do that a

control and focus there and do that a

control and focus there and do that a little bit and you know one day you'll

little bit and you know one day you'll

little bit and you know one day you'll look up and realize okay I can make a

look up and realize okay I can make a

look up and realize okay I can make a difference for people who are listening

difference for people who are listening

difference for people who are listening I mean I know your backstory but um can

I mean I know your backstory but um can

I mean I know your backstory but um can you give us just like to take a step

you give us just like to take a step

you give us just like to take a step back can you give us the the 30 second

back can you give us the the 30 second

back can you give us the the 30 second um history of who you are and how you

um history of who you are and how you

um history of who you are and how you got to the place you are in your career

got to the place you are in your career

got to the place you are in your career where you do all these things sure um I

where you do all these things sure um I

where you do all these things sure um I started playing music when I was really

started playing music when I was really

started playing music when I was really young and then when I got to college I

young and then when I got to college I

young and then when I got to college I thought I better make a choice that will

thought I better make a choice that will

thought I better make a choice that will make my parents will allow them to sleep

make my parents will allow them to sleep

make my parents will allow them to sleep at night right um so I'm going to choose

at night right um so I'm going to choose

at night right um so I'm going to choose something practical I'm going to study

something practical I'm going to study

something practical I'm going to study finance and economics because around

finance and economics because around

finance and economics because around this time 2006 when I made that choice a

this time 2006 when I made that choice a

this time 2006 when I made that choice a bunch of people were getting really rich

bunch of people were getting really rich

bunch of people were getting really rich and they didn't seem that smart and I

and they didn't seem that smart and I

and they didn't seem that smart and I was like Bingo that's my job because

was like Bingo that's my job because

was like Bingo that's my job because what I want to do is have time for my

what I want to do is have time for my

what I want to do is have time for my art for music so I study finance and

art for music so I study finance and

art for music so I study finance and econ my first job with my degree was

econ my first job with my degree was

econ my first job with my degree was working at a small a boutique business

working at a small a boutique business

working at a small a boutique business Consulting and management firm so I'm

Consulting and management firm so I'm

Consulting and management firm so I'm like 22 years old helping these creative

like 22 years old helping these creative

like 22 years old helping these creative businesses do their books I'm also still

businesses do their books I'm also still

businesses do their books I'm also still playing in the band then I pivot and I

playing in the band then I pivot and I

playing in the band then I pivot and I go into to wealth management so I'm

go into to wealth management so I'm

go into to wealth management so I'm working at this financial planning firm

working at this financial planning firm

working at this financial planning firm that's managing just north of a billion

that's managing just north of a billion

that's managing just north of a billion dollars and I start to learn about

dollars and I start to learn about

dollars and I start to learn about personal finances and I'm here in LA and

personal finances and I'm here in LA and

personal finances and I'm here in LA and I'm I'm sitting across from a lot of

I'm I'm sitting across from a lot of

I'm I'm sitting across from a lot of Studio heads and um I'm kind of broke at

Studio heads and um I'm kind of broke at

Studio heads and um I'm kind of broke at this point you know I'm not making a lot

this point you know I'm not making a lot

this point you know I'm not making a lot of money I'm still playing in the band

of money I'm still playing in the band

of money I'm still playing in the band and I get this moment of like wait a

and I get this moment of like wait a

and I get this moment of like wait a minute I'm like helping this VP at some

minute I'm like helping this VP at some

minute I'm like helping this VP at some studio save like 50 Grand on a tax bill

studio save like 50 Grand on a tax bill

studio save like 50 Grand on a tax bill but like my community of people like the

but like my community of people like the

but like my community of people like the artists the painters the ceramicists the

artists the painters the ceramicists the

artists the painters the ceramicists the filmmakers my people they don't have

filmmakers my people they don't have

filmmakers my people they don't have access to this and so the question was

access to this and so the question was

access to this and so the question was how can I serve this community and and

how can I serve this community and and

how can I serve this community and and Thrive and not be broke and so

Thrive and not be broke and so

Thrive and not be broke and so everything that you've seen since then

everything that you've seen since then

everything that you've seen since then uh the bookkeeping agency that I've run

uh the bookkeeping agency that I've run

uh the bookkeeping agency that I've run the Ted Talk that I've done the book

the Ted Talk that I've done the book

the Ted Talk that I've done the book that I've written the podcast that I've

that I've written the podcast that I've

that I've written the podcast that I've had all of that is just data trying to

had all of that is just data trying to

had all of that is just data trying to answer that hypothesis of like can I be

answer that hypothesis of like can I be

answer that hypothesis of like can I be useful can I can I be helpful I make a

useful can I can I be helpful I make a

useful can I can I be helpful I make a lot of Finance content and I'm just like

lot of Finance content and I'm just like

lot of Finance content and I'm just like you know trying to help people just inch

you know trying to help people just inch

you know trying to help people just inch by inch Brick by Brick I imagine there's

by inch Brick by Brick I imagine there's

by inch Brick by Brick I imagine there's there's a lot of people who listen to

there's a lot of people who listen to

there's a lot of people who listen to this show who are um younger who are

this show who are um younger who are

this show who are um younger who are maybe not in their first job but you

maybe not in their first job but you

maybe not in their first job but you know still starting out in their careers

know still starting out in their careers

know still starting out in their careers when you were in that position where

when you were in that position where

when you were in that position where you're kind of probably not making that

you're kind of probably not making that

you're kind of probably not making that much money maybe struggling to you know

much money maybe struggling to you know

much money maybe struggling to you know pay your bills and stay out of debt or

pay your bills and stay out of debt or

pay your bills and stay out of debt or not go into a lot more debt than you're

not go into a lot more debt than you're

not go into a lot more debt than you're already

already

already in how do they start to think about

in how do they start to think about

in how do they start to think about money in this way that is empowering

money in this way that is empowering

money in this way that is empowering because I think for a lot of people

because I think for a lot of people

because I think for a lot of people myself included money feels like um it's

myself included money feels like um it's

myself included money feels like um it's empowering when you have a lot of it and

empowering when you have a lot of it and

empowering when you have a lot of it and when you're rich and when you don't have

when you're rich and when you don't have

when you're rich and when you don't have a lot of it it is a constant stressor

a lot of it it is a constant stressor

a lot of it it is a constant stressor and a burden and not like a fun tool it

and a burden and not like a fun tool it

and a burden and not like a fun tool it feels like a a weight rather than a tool

feels like a a weight rather than a tool

feels like a a weight rather than a tool so to be fair I struggle right I'm going

so to be fair I struggle right I'm going

so to be fair I struggle right I'm going to ulate back and forth myself between

to ulate back and forth myself between

to ulate back and forth myself between feeling very confident about

feeling very confident about

feeling very confident about understanding money from a very logical

understanding money from a very logical

understanding money from a very logical perspective and then the reality of

perspective and then the reality of

perspective and then the reality of being like but I wish I had more or I

being like but I wish I had more or I

being like but I wish I had more or I feel constrained or is any amount ever

feel constrained or is any amount ever

feel constrained or is any amount ever going to feel enough right so I think

going to feel enough right so I think

going to feel enough right so I think having those feelings of push and pull

having those feelings of push and pull

having those feelings of push and pull are normal that's just what it's like to

are normal that's just what it's like to

are normal that's just what it's like to be a human person on planet Earth first

be a human person on planet Earth first

be a human person on planet Earth first of all so I've been grappling with this

of all so I've been grappling with this

of all so I've been grappling with this myself but let me let me back up and say

myself but let me let me back up and say

myself but let me let me back up and say that when I was a financial planner I

that when I was a financial planner I

that when I was a financial planner I was a broke financial planner mhm I was

was a broke financial planner mhm I was

was a broke financial planner mhm I was making very little and I was riding my

making very little and I was riding my

making very little and I was riding my bike to work in Los Angeles during rush

bike to work in Los Angeles during rush

bike to work in Los Angeles during rush hour traffic and I was like growing

hour traffic and I was like growing

hour traffic and I was like growing lettuce in my backyard to save like $2

lettuce in my backyard to save like $2

lettuce in my backyard to save like $2 at Trader Joe's right I've struggled

at Trader Joe's right I've struggled

at Trader Joe's right I've struggled financially so how do we help young

financially so how do we help young

financially so how do we help young people get through this the first thing

people get through this the first thing

people get through this the first thing you have to do is really just look at

you have to do is really just look at

you have to do is really just look at the things that you can control right

the things that you can control right

the things that you can control right and that we can't control inequality

and that we can't control inequality

and that we can't control inequality unfortunately but what we can control is

unfortunately but what we can control is

unfortunately but what we can control is like understanding how the market works

like understanding how the market works

like understanding how the market works right and sure stock market but I mean

right and sure stock market but I mean

right and sure stock market but I mean like the market in which you're

like the market in which you're

like the market in which you're exchanging your skills and what you can

exchanging your skills and what you can

exchanging your skills and what you can produce and unfortunately your time for

produce and unfortunately your time for

produce and unfortunately your time for money and I think here's where a lot of

money and I think here's where a lot of

money and I think here's where a lot of creative people get uncomfortable

creative people get uncomfortable

creative people get uncomfortable because now I'm forcing you to say like

because now I'm forcing you to say like

because now I'm forcing you to say like Chris how valuable is making people

Chris how valuable is making people

Chris how valuable is making people laugh in the world how do we put a

laugh in the world how do we put a

laugh in the world how do we put a dollar value on that but you have to

dollar value on that but you have to

dollar value on that but you have to start looking at what you're able to

start looking at what you're able to

start looking at what you're able to create in the world produce in the world

create in the world produce in the world

create in the world produce in the world how you're able to move people in the

how you're able to move people in the

how you're able to move people in the world or inspire people in the world how

world or inspire people in the world how

world or inspire people in the world how can we assign a dollar value to that

can we assign a dollar value to that

can we assign a dollar value to that understanding how people value things in

understanding how people value things in

understanding how people value things in the world I think is really going to be

the world I think is really going to be

the world I think is really going to be the first step yeah I I'll say that for

the first step yeah I I'll say that for

the first step yeah I I'll say that for me personally one of the hard parts of

me personally one of the hard parts of

me personally one of the hard parts of um leaving my job teaching and starting

um leaving my job teaching and starting

um leaving my job teaching and starting the work of being a comedian and a

the work of being a comedian and a

the work of being a comedian and a writer was having to constantly price

writer was having to constantly price

writer was having to constantly price things you know having to say hey will

things you know having to say hey will

things you know having to say hey will you hire me to write this thing or make

you hire me to write this thing or make

you hire me to write this thing or make this video or perform a live show for

this video or perform a live show for

this video or perform a live show for you and that those things didn't have

you and that those things didn't have

you and that those things didn't have like a set price tag that was a really

like a set price tag that was a really

like a set price tag that was a really hard thing for me and I think the

hard thing for me and I think the

hard thing for me and I think the biggest mental shift that helped me and

biggest mental shift that helped me and

biggest mental shift that helped me and this is only specific to me I don't know

this is only specific to me I don't know

this is only specific to me I don't know if this will be true for everyone else

if this will be true for everyone else

if this will be true for everyone else but is I was shocked because I thought

but is I was shocked because I thought

but is I was shocked because I thought that if I said hey me performing standup

that if I said hey me performing standup

that if I said hey me performing standup For You costs $500 instead of $50 I

For You costs $500 instead of $50 I

For You costs $500 instead of $50 I thought people would be angry or or like

thought people would be angry or or like

thought people would be angry or or like me less and it was astonishing to

me less and it was astonishing to

me less and it was astonishing to discover that most of the time when I

discover that most of the time when I

discover that most of the time when I said $500 people who were trying to hire

said $500 people who were trying to hire

said $500 people who were trying to hire me respected me more and treated me

me respected me more and treated me

me respected me more and treated me better you're treating me so much better

better you're treating me so much better

better you're treating me so much better you're treating me like I'm a

you're treating me like I'm a

you're treating me like I'm a professional instead of like I'm just

professional instead of like I'm just

professional instead of like I'm just the guy who's here with a microphone

the guy who's here with a microphone

the guy who's here with a microphone that was a huge Revelation yeah it's a

that was a huge Revelation yeah it's a

that was a huge Revelation yeah it's a it's a weird thing that happens when you

it's a weird thing that happens when you

it's a weird thing that happens when you are showing people like okay I here's

are showing people like okay I here's

are showing people like okay I here's how I'm going to Value this right and

how I'm going to Value this right and

how I'm going to Value this right and that you know that statement in itself

that you know that statement in itself

that you know that statement in itself can be misleading cuz you can't just

can be misleading cuz you can't just

can be misleading cuz you can't just wake up and say I'm going to charge a

wake up and say I'm going to charge a

wake up and say I'm going to charge a certain amount you have to like meet a

certain amount you have to like meet a

certain amount you have to like meet a threshold of skill but once you exceed

threshold of skill but once you exceed

threshold of skill but once you exceed that once you meet and or exceed that

that once you meet and or exceed that

that once you meet and or exceed that yeah it's really amazing how if you

yeah it's really amazing how if you

yeah it's really amazing how if you don't charge enough actually you look

don't charge enough actually you look

don't charge enough actually you look like a cheap option right and the the

like a cheap option right and the the

like a cheap option right and the the phrase I always like to use is is the $1

phrase I always like to use is is the $1

phrase I always like to use is is the $1 oyster so tell me Chris if you saw

oyster so tell me Chris if you saw

oyster so tell me Chris if you saw somebody selling an oyster for a dollar

somebody selling an oyster for a dollar

somebody selling an oyster for a dollar would you think that's a great deal or

would you think that's a great deal or

would you think that's a great deal or would you be a little bit like I don't

would you be a little bit like I don't

would you be a little bit like I don't know that sounds like food poisoning

know that sounds like food poisoning

know that sounds like food poisoning tomorrow you know I I know exactly where

tomorrow you know I I know exactly where

tomorrow you know I I know exactly where you're going and I know the right answer

you're going and I know the right answer

you're going and I know the right answer and I do have to be honest Paco that I

and I do have to be honest Paco that I

and I do have to be honest Paco that I am a terrible person to ask this

am a terrible person to ask this

am a terrible person to ask this question because almost every year of my

question because almost every year of my

question because almost every year of my life I have gotten food poisoning from

life I have gotten food poisoning from

life I have gotten food poisoning from eating something that I knew was bad so

eating something that I knew was bad so

eating something that I knew was bad so I am definitely the guy who's like $1

I am definitely the guy who's like $1

I am definitely the guy who's like $1 oysters yum and then I eat 17 and the

oysters yum and then I eat 17 and the

oysters yum and then I eat 17 and the next day I'm like those came with a cost

next day I'm like those came with a cost

next day I'm like those came with a cost there's a high price to the $1 oyster

there's a high price to the $1 oyster

there's a high price to the $1 oyster but I do think that a rational person

but I do think that a rational person

but I do think that a rational person would say I'm going to investigate why

would say I'm going to investigate why

would say I'm going to investigate why these oysters are cheaper than I think

these oysters are cheaper than I think

these oysters are cheaper than I think they should be exactly and that's what

they should be exactly and that's what

they should be exactly and that's what happens when you're anchoring your price

happens when you're anchoring your price

happens when you're anchoring your price or you're saying to somebody this is

or you're saying to somebody this is

or you're saying to somebody this is what I'm worth I mean a great example

what I'm worth I mean a great example

what I'm worth I mean a great example like when I first started my bookkeeping

like when I first started my bookkeeping

like when I first started my bookkeeping agency I remember trying to compete with

agency I remember trying to compete with

agency I remember trying to compete with like a company like bench right and

like a company like bench right and

like a company like bench right and they're they have economies of skill

they're they have economies of skill

they're they have economies of skill they they were using proprietary

they they were using proprietary

they they were using proprietary software they they had invest they could

software they they had invest they could

software they they had invest they could afford to lose money right when you're a

afford to lose money right when you're a

afford to lose money right when you're a small business you shouldn't operate at

small business you shouldn't operate at

small business you shouldn't operate at a loss the way that these larger

a loss the way that these larger

a loss the way that these larger business can because they're going for

business can because they're going for

business can because they're going for volume and I remember charging really

volume and I remember charging really

volume and I remember charging really cheap and trying to try to be around

cheap and trying to try to be around

cheap and trying to try to be around that price and uh it was fine it was

that price and uh it was fine it was

that price and uh it was fine it was going okay and then one day I was like

going okay and then one day I was like

going okay and then one day I was like this is I like hit a wall right the pain

this is I like hit a wall right the pain

this is I like hit a wall right the pain was too great I'm like something's got

was too great I'm like something's got

was too great I'm like something's got to change and like from here on out

to change and like from here on out

to change and like from here on out we're raising our prices you know we're

we're raising our prices you know we're

we're raising our prices you know we're we're worth more we're more premium and

we're worth more we're more premium and

we're worth more we're more premium and the moment I raise my prices like

the moment I raise my prices like

the moment I raise my prices like business like more people said yes and I

business like more people said yes and I

business like more people said yes and I was like oh crap this is totally the

was like oh crap this is totally the

was like oh crap this is totally the goddamn $1 oyster here it's also you

goddamn $1 oyster here it's also you

goddamn $1 oyster here it's also you know this is something you talk about in

know this is something you talk about in

know this is something you talk about in your Ted Talk which is you have to

your Ted Talk which is you have to

your Ted Talk which is you have to figure out what makes you different than

figure out what makes you different than

figure out what makes you different than other people so why would someone hire

other people so why would someone hire

other people so why would someone hire you rather than hire the five other

you rather than hire the five other

you rather than hire the five other options that seem on paper to be similar

options that seem on paper to be similar

options that seem on paper to be similar and and one thing that I really loved is

and and one thing that I really loved is

and and one thing that I really loved is you say if you can't answer the question

you say if you can't answer the question

you say if you can't answer the question of why you rather than the others then

of why you rather than the others then

of why you rather than the others then the only thing to differentiate you is

the only thing to differentiate you is

the only thing to differentiate you is price and that's going to be a race to

price and that's going to be a race to

price and that's going to be a race to the bottom being the cheapest is a is a

the bottom being the cheapest is a is a

the bottom being the cheapest is a is a tough battle to win super tough battle

tough battle to win super tough battle

tough battle to win super tough battle and then when you're the cheapest now

and then when you're the cheapest now

and then when you're the cheapest now you're like what kinds of clients are

you're like what kinds of clients are

you're like what kinds of clients are you then attracting which means then

you then attracting which means then

you then attracting which means then what kinds of conversations are you

what kinds of conversations are you

what kinds of conversations are you having on a day-to-day basis right

having on a day-to-day basis right

having on a day-to-day basis right probably things like why does this cost

probably things like why does this cost

probably things like why does this cost this much could you give me a discount

this much could you give me a discount

this much could you give me a discount you're straight up going to get people

you're straight up going to get people

you're straight up going to get people that do not value you right they value

that do not value you right they value

that do not value you right they value the cheapest option they value spending

the cheapest option they value spending

the cheapest option they value spending less money they don't value like oh I

less money they don't value like oh I

less money they don't value like oh I want to have a great experience the

want to have a great experience the

want to have a great experience the customer experience is top-notch things

customer experience is top-notch things

customer experience is top-notch things like that and uh yeah you defitely have

like that and uh yeah you defitely have

like that and uh yeah you defitely have to figure out what sets you apart which

to figure out what sets you apart which

to figure out what sets you apart which I think some people struggle with that

I think some people struggle with that

I think some people struggle with that but I find that to be a really fun space

but I find that to be a really fun space

but I find that to be a really fun space to play in like there's a lot of

to play in like there's a lot of

to play in like there's a lot of potential and possibility and you can

potential and possibility and you can

potential and possibility and you can kind of like turn things on its head so

kind of like turn things on its head so

kind of like turn things on its head so to speak I've heard someone say like you

to speak I've heard someone say like you

to speak I've heard someone say like you have to give them a a handle to pick you

have to give them a a handle to pick you

have to give them a a handle to pick you up by afterwards so maybe for me it's

up by afterwards so maybe for me it's

up by afterwards so maybe for me it's like he's a comedian but he also

like he's a comedian but he also

like he's a comedian but he also interviews scientists and smart people

interviews scientists and smart people

interviews scientists and smart people about stuff he uses comedy to make a big

about stuff he uses comedy to make a big

about stuff he uses comedy to make a big Ideas accessible right I think that's of

Ideas accessible right I think that's of

Ideas accessible right I think that's of in my hands on in the financial planning

in my hands on in the financial planning

in my hands on in the financial planning industry I remember we'd be like we got

industry I remember we'd be like we got

industry I remember we'd be like we got a guy right you're uh you need an estate

a guy right you're uh you need an estate

a guy right you're uh you need an estate planner and you have all this

planner and you have all this

planner and you have all this complication don't worry we got a guy

complication don't worry we got a guy

complication don't worry we got a guy right you always have to think about how

right you always have to think about how

right you always have to think about how are you we got a guy in someone's mind

are you we got a guy in someone's mind

are you we got a guy in someone's mind you are always talking about not just

you are always talking about not just

you are always talking about not just what we should do with money but how we

what we should do with money but how we

what we should do with money but how we should think about money and that's not

should think about money and that's not

should think about money and that's not always a way that people process

always a way that people process

always a way that people process personal finance so I want to just ask

personal finance so I want to just ask

personal finance so I want to just ask you why that is and I I would also love

you why that is and I I would also love

you why that is and I I would also love for you to tie in um

for you to tie in um

for you to tie in um a thing that's really stuck with me from

a thing that's really stuck with me from

a thing that's really stuck with me from your book which is the idea that if

your book which is the idea that if

your book which is the idea that if there's one way that we can generalize

there's one way that we can generalize

there's one way that we can generalize it's that we are all weird about money

it's that we are all weird about money

it's that we are all weird about money so when I was working at the bank as a

so when I was working at the bank as a

so when I was working at the bank as a debt collector I remember I would be

debt collector I remember I would be

debt collector I remember I would be calling people and the level of emotion

calling people and the level of emotion

calling people and the level of emotion that people would have right they're so

that people would have right they're so

that people would have right they're so ashamed they're so embarrassed they're

ashamed they're so embarrassed they're

ashamed they're so embarrassed they're like how dare you call me a dinner to

like how dare you call me a dinner to

like how dare you call me a dinner to you know collect this debt and I totally

you know collect this debt and I totally

you know collect this debt and I totally I totally get where they're coming from

I totally get where they're coming from

I totally get where they're coming from but that was a very formative experience

but that was a very formative experience

but that was a very formative experience of like seeing people's reaction to

of like seeing people's reaction to

of like seeing people's reaction to their finances and realizing that you

their finances and realizing that you

their finances and realizing that you know having this shame right and talking

know having this shame right and talking

know having this shame right and talking to a stranger is is part of money and so

to a stranger is is part of money and so

to a stranger is is part of money and so over time like I'm stitching together

over time like I'm stitching together

over time like I'm stitching together this kind of Mosaic and realizing like

this kind of Mosaic and realizing like

this kind of Mosaic and realizing like oh you know people are weird about money

oh you know people are weird about money

oh you know people are weird about money it's a very weird thing there's all

it's a very weird thing there's all

it's a very weird thing there's all these forces that we can't control

these forces that we can't control

these forces that we can't control there's this idea in the world that one

there's this idea in the world that one

there's this idea in the world that one shouldn't talk about money which then

shouldn't talk about money which then

shouldn't talk about money which then exacerbates all of these negative

exacerbates all of these negative

exacerbates all of these negative feelings that we have and so you know I

feelings that we have and so you know I

feelings that we have and so you know I think we should really unpack that and

think we should really unpack that and

think we should really unpack that and and for me personally the moment that I

and for me personally the moment that I

and for me personally the moment that I was able to really change my financial

was able to really change my financial

was able to really change my financial life I when I look back on it all of

life I when I look back on it all of

life I when I look back on it all of those moments start with like what did I

those moments start with like what did I

those moments start with like what did I used to believe and then how did I

used to believe and then how did I

used to believe and then how did I change that belief and then how was I

change that belief and then how was I

change that belief and then how was I able to change my behavior because I

able to change my behavior because I

able to change my behavior because I changed that belief and I know that

changed that belief and I know that

changed that belief and I know that sounds so woo woo and and like H you

sounds so woo woo and and like H you

sounds so woo woo and and like H you know if you just believe it you can

know if you just believe it you can

know if you just believe it you can achieve it and I that's not what I'm

achieve it and I that's not what I'm

achieve it and I that's not what I'm saying but you have to believe that

saying but you have to believe that

saying but you have to believe that something is possible before you act on

something is possible before you act on

something is possible before you act on that possibility it's easy to think when

that possibility it's easy to think when

that possibility it's easy to think when someone is talking about um the work

someone is talking about um the work

someone is talking about um the work that they've done in finance and also

that they've done in finance and also

that they've done in finance and also the position of recommending to people

the position of recommending to people

the position of recommending to people what they should do with their um with

what they should do with their um with

what they should do with their um with their money that you are a fan of uh the

their money that you are a fan of uh the

their money that you are a fan of uh the status quo and like capitalism's number

status quo and like capitalism's number

status quo and like capitalism's number one cheerleader and I know that you said

one cheerleader and I know that you said

one cheerleader and I know that you said in the book like that is very much not

in the book like that is very much not

in the book like that is very much not the case yeah I mean uh another thing

the case yeah I mean uh another thing

the case yeah I mean uh another thing that is Prickly I guess from my

that is Prickly I guess from my

that is Prickly I guess from my perspective is that even though I'm

perspective is that even though I'm

perspective is that even though I'm helping people get through this system

helping people get through this system

helping people get through this system that we have right teaching in the rules

that we have right teaching in the rules

that we have right teaching in the rules things that are spoken unspoken things

things that are spoken unspoken things

things that are spoken unspoken things that get passed on behind closed doors

that get passed on behind closed doors

that get passed on behind closed doors and certain zip codes right a big

and certain zip codes right a big

and certain zip codes right a big motivation for that is like yeah I want

motivation for that is like yeah I want

motivation for that is like yeah I want people to understand the rules of the

people to understand the rules of the

people to understand the rules of the game but I do realize and now even more

game but I do realize and now even more

game but I do realize and now even more like seeing the future or like you know

like seeing the future or like you know

like seeing the future or like you know looking at the Horizon like there's

looking at the Horizon like there's

looking at the Horizon like there's change is going to happen and what needs

change is going to happen and what needs

change is going to happen and what needs to happen first is we need to understand

to happen first is we need to understand

to happen first is we need to understand how we got some of these rules like what

how we got some of these rules like what

how we got some of these rules like what is the history of credit scores what is

is the history of credit scores what is

is the history of credit scores what is the history of credit cards why why does

the history of credit cards why why does

the history of credit cards why why does the stock market work the way that it

the stock market work the way that it

the stock market work the way that it does right and once we understand these

does right and once we understand these

does right and once we understand these fundamentals then we can okay we can at

fundamentals then we can okay we can at

fundamentals then we can okay we can at least go from a place of do we want to

least go from a place of do we want to

least go from a place of do we want to keep certain things this is why this is

keep certain things this is why this is

keep certain things this is why this is great or like when it's you know should

great or like when it's you know should

great or like when it's you know should we burn it all down should we build

we burn it all down should we build

we burn it all down should we build something new I think again knowledge is

something new I think again knowledge is

something new I think again knowledge is really the the the starting point here

really the the the starting point here

really the the the starting point here in the US there is a very robust system

in the US there is a very robust system

in the US there is a very robust system of enforcement and laws around the idea

of enforcement and laws around the idea

of enforcement and laws around the idea of insider trading right the idea that

of insider trading right the idea that

of insider trading right the idea that people shouldn't be able to invest based

people shouldn't be able to invest based

people shouldn't be able to invest based on material non-public information so

on material non-public information so

on material non-public information so the idea that like if you're an

the idea that like if you're an

the idea that like if you're an executive and you find out that your

executive and you find out that your

executive and you find out that your company is going to have a worse sales

company is going to have a worse sales

company is going to have a worse sales quarter you shouldn't be able to sell

quarter you shouldn't be able to sell

quarter you shouldn't be able to sell your company stock when other people

your company stock when other people

your company stock when other people can't and the philosophy behind that as

can't and the philosophy behind that as

can't and the philosophy behind that as I understand it is that it's it's not

I understand it is that it's it's not

I understand it is that it's it's not fair to regular people because you have

fair to regular people because you have

fair to regular people because you have more information than they do a lot of

more information than they do a lot of

more information than they do a lot of the rest of the finance system maybe all

the rest of the finance system maybe all

the rest of the finance system maybe all of the rest of the finance system does

of the rest of the finance system does

of the rest of the finance system does not live up to that underlying

not live up to that underlying

not live up to that underlying philosophy that like we should all have

philosophy that like we should all have

philosophy that like we should all have the the same information and knowledge

the the same information and knowledge

the the same information and knowledge and ability to make money off of these

and ability to make money off of these

and ability to make money off of these systems and I think part of what you're

systems and I think part of what you're

systems and I think part of what you're doing that's radical is trying to try to

doing that's radical is trying to try to

doing that's radical is trying to try to get some more people who are on the

get some more people who are on the

get some more people who are on the outside to be on the inside of the

outside to be on the inside of the

outside to be on the inside of the system yeah that's you hit the nail on

system yeah that's you hit the nail on

system yeah that's you hit the nail on the head that's exactly what I'm trying

the head that's exactly what I'm trying

the head that's exactly what I'm trying to do really what I've seen is I've seen

to do really what I've seen is I've seen

to do really what I've seen is I've seen a lot of people just feel like this

a lot of people just feel like this

a lot of people just feel like this world of money is quote unquote not for

world of money is quote unquote not for

world of money is quote unquote not for them and I feel that way I felt that way

them and I feel that way I felt that way

them and I feel that way I felt that way I continue to feel that way but I think

I continue to feel that way but I think

I continue to feel that way but I think I've always chosen to try to be in

I've always chosen to try to be in

I've always chosen to try to be in spaces where maybe I just feel like I

spaces where maybe I just feel like I

spaces where maybe I just feel like I don't belong maybe that's a symptom of

don't belong maybe that's a symptom of

don't belong maybe that's a symptom of being an intersectional person is like

being an intersectional person is like

being an intersectional person is like you you never feel like you belong maybe

you you never feel like you belong maybe

you you never feel like you belong maybe it's a symptom of having immigrant

it's a symptom of having immigrant

it's a symptom of having immigrant parents you feel like you never belong

parents you feel like you never belong

parents you feel like you never belong right but if I can get as many people to

right but if I can get as many people to

right but if I can get as many people to understand you know the underlying

understand you know the underlying

understand you know the underlying forces and and where they can find their

forces and and where they can find their

forces and and where they can find their agency then I think net net net it's

agency then I think net net net it's

agency then I think net net net it's it's just going to help people suffer

it's just going to help people suffer

it's just going to help people suffer less at the end of the day and that's

less at the end of the day and that's

less at the end of the day and that's really that's really all I'm trying to

really that's really all I'm trying to

really that's really all I'm trying to do Chris okay so this season on the

do Chris okay so this season on the

do Chris okay so this season on the podcast we are using as kind of a

podcast we are using as kind of a

podcast we are using as kind of a Guiding Light these some of these like

Guiding Light these some of these like

Guiding Light these some of these like virtues or or or values moral values

virtues or or or values moral values

virtues or or or values moral values that that I think are interesting to

that that I think are interesting to

that that I think are interesting to think about as as what we would maybe

think about as as what we would maybe

think about as as what we would maybe strive for and one virtue that people

strive for and one virtue that people

strive for and one virtue that people talk about a lot is the idea of thrift

talk about a lot is the idea of thrift

talk about a lot is the idea of thrift for me you know when I thought about

for me you know when I thought about

for me you know when I thought about Thrift originally I would think of that

Thrift originally I would think of that

Thrift originally I would think of that as just like being cheap but it's

as just like being cheap but it's

as just like being cheap but it's actually you know the definition of

actually you know the definition of

actually you know the definition of thrift is the quality of using money and

thrift is the quality of using money and

thrift is the quality of using money and other resources carefully and not

other resources carefully and not

other resources carefully and not wastefully so for you when you think

wastefully so for you when you think

wastefully so for you when you think about

about

about Thrift and you think about its

Thrift and you think about its

Thrift and you think about its connection to money and power which you

connection to money and power which you

connection to money and power which you said money is a proxy for power H how do

said money is a proxy for power H how do

said money is a proxy for power H how do you think about Thrift and and why is

you think about Thrift and and why is

you think about Thrift and and why is that important or is that important I

that important or is that important I

that important or is that important I yeah I definitely think thrift is

yeah I definitely think thrift is

yeah I definitely think thrift is important when I think about it in

important when I think about it in

important when I think about it in relation to power it's all about trying

relation to power it's all about trying

relation to power it's all about trying to be mindful with your resources

to be mindful with your resources

to be mindful with your resources because if you're not using it here on

because if you're not using it here on

because if you're not using it here on something that seems frivolous or

something that seems frivolous or

something that seems frivolous or wasteful then you can allocate it and

wasteful then you can allocate it and

wasteful then you can allocate it and use it over there in a way that has

use it over there in a way that has

use it over there in a way that has impact right and however you choose that

impact right and however you choose that

impact right and however you choose that impact is your choice but understanding

impact is your choice but understanding

impact is your choice but understanding the opportunity cost and the trade-off

the opportunity cost and the trade-off

the opportunity cost and the trade-off is is hugely important and I never

is is hugely important and I never

is is hugely important and I never thought I would be comparing Thrift to

thought I would be comparing Thrift to

thought I would be comparing Thrift to power but but here we are yeah and

power but but here we are yeah and

power but but here we are yeah and you're I mean I'm thinking about it even

you're I mean I'm thinking about it even

you're I mean I'm thinking about it even just in your own personal story right

just in your own personal story right

just in your own personal story right like you're someone who's riding your

like you're someone who's riding your

like you're someone who's riding your bike and you're growing lettuce so those

bike and you're growing lettuce so those

bike and you're growing lettuce so those are examples of thrift but in some other

are examples of thrift but in some other

are examples of thrift but in some other ways the fact that you are working this

ways the fact that you are working this

ways the fact that you are working this job that maybe doesn't pay you exactly

job that maybe doesn't pay you exactly

job that maybe doesn't pay you exactly what you want it to pay so that you can

what you want it to pay so that you can

what you want it to pay so that you can then get access to knowledge and

then get access to knowledge and

then get access to knowledge and connections and and power is in some

connections and and power is in some

connections and and power is in some ways that's an example of thrift too

ways that's an example of thrift too

ways that's an example of thrift too yeah that makes me seem like a genius

yeah that makes me seem like a genius

yeah that makes me seem like a genius and I was plotting to do that but I

and I was plotting to do that but I

and I was plotting to do that but I really wasn't

really wasn't

really wasn't I I think I was just trying to you know

I I think I was just trying to you know

I I think I was just trying to you know figure out my path and in retrospect

figure out my path and in retrospect

figure out my path and in retrospect wasn't saving right I was trying to save

wasn't saving right I was trying to save

wasn't saving right I was trying to save like $40 a week in gas and $2 a a week

like $40 a week in gas and $2 a a week

like $40 a week in gas and $2 a a week in lettuce so I wasn't saving $42 for

in lettuce so I wasn't saving $42 for

in lettuce so I wasn't saving $42 for myself I was actually saving $42 for my

myself I was actually saving $42 for my

myself I was actually saving $42 for my employer I should have had an

employer I should have had an

employer I should have had an uncomfortable conversation with my boss

uncomfortable conversation with my boss

uncomfortable conversation with my boss and said Hey listen this is I'm not

and said Hey listen this is I'm not

and said Hey listen this is I'm not surviving here and like you're paying

surviving here and like you're paying

surviving here and like you're paying yourself a ton I literally see it

yourself a ton I literally see it

yourself a ton I literally see it how can we make the math math so that

how can we make the math math so that

how can we make the math math so that I'm not you know putting myself in

I'm not you know putting myself in

I'm not you know putting myself in danger and super stressed out so I would

danger and super stressed out so I would

danger and super stressed out so I would say maybe the thrift power relationship

say maybe the thrift power relationship

say maybe the thrift power relationship in that example is maybe more

in that example is maybe more

in that example is maybe more maladaptive than I would um encourage

maladaptive than I would um encourage

maladaptive than I would um encourage folks to you know follow I've heard you

folks to you know follow I've heard you

folks to you know follow I've heard you give some really practical advice for

give some really practical advice for

give some really practical advice for people about spending obviously there's

people about spending obviously there's

people about spending obviously there's you know there's the piece of saving

you know there's the piece of saving

you know there's the piece of saving there's also the piece of um trying to

there's also the piece of um trying to

there's also the piece of um trying to make more which I often think is uh

make more which I often think is uh

make more which I often think is uh under undersold is the answer right

under undersold is the answer right

under undersold is the answer right there's a lot of people out there being

there's a lot of people out there being

there's a lot of people out there being like just don't buy whatever the the hip

like just don't buy whatever the the hip

like just don't buy whatever the the hip thing of the day to say is bad is right

thing of the day to say is bad is right

thing of the day to say is bad is right like don't buy your avocado toast don't

like don't buy your avocado toast don't

like don't buy your avocado toast don't get your gatte don't spend money on

get your gatte don't spend money on

get your gatte don't spend money on whatever to me it's often like well the

whatever to me it's often like well the

whatever to me it's often like well the answer is just pay me more let me be in

answer is just pay me more let me be in

answer is just pay me more let me be in a union so that you don't take advantage

a union so that you don't take advantage

a union so that you don't take advantage of me and then I'd be able to afford

of me and then I'd be able to afford

of me and then I'd be able to afford that and it wouldn't be a problem but we

that and it wouldn't be a problem but we

that and it wouldn't be a problem but we don't always spend consciously um so

don't always spend consciously um so

don't always spend consciously um so let's talk about this this law that

let's talk about this this law that

let's talk about this this law that you've jokingly called or maybe not

you've jokingly called or maybe not

you've jokingly called or maybe not jokingly called Paco's law which is your

jokingly called Paco's law which is your

jokingly called Paco's law which is your spending will equal what you have

spending will equal what you have

spending will equal what you have available to spend my philosophy on

available to spend my philosophy on

available to spend my philosophy on figuring out ways to constrain your

figuring out ways to constrain your

figuring out ways to constrain your spending I really want people to in like

spending I really want people to in like

spending I really want people to in like create this idea of scarcity with their

create this idea of scarcity with their

create this idea of scarcity with their cash you know in order to kind of manage

cash you know in order to kind of manage

cash you know in order to kind of manage your spending I think you need to find

your spending I think you need to find

your spending I think you need to find ways to like protect yourself against

ways to like protect yourself against

ways to like protect yourself against yourself because you know we're

yourself because you know we're

yourself because you know we're emotional creatures we're we're

emotional creatures we're we're

emotional creatures we're we're scrolling Instagram there's a team of

scrolling Instagram there's a team of

scrolling Instagram there's a team of neurologists and psychologists and

neurologists and psychologists and

neurologists and psychologists and marketers whose whole job when they're

marketers whose whole job when they're

marketers whose whole job when they're paid very well is to try to get us to

paid very well is to try to get us to

paid very well is to try to get us to impulse buy right and it used to just be

impulse buy right and it used to just be

impulse buy right and it used to just be like okay you're out shopping and and

like okay you're out shopping and and

like okay you're out shopping and and you see aaq and you think let me buy

you see aaq and you think let me buy

you see aaq and you think let me buy this magazine and those are low stakes

this magazine and those are low stakes

this magazine and those are low stakes we are not in low stakes territory

we are not in low stakes territory

we are not in low stakes territory anymore folks we are walking around with

anymore folks we are walking around with

anymore folks we are walking around with tiny little Billboards in our pockets

tiny little Billboards in our pockets

tiny little Billboards in our pockets constantly advertising to us so to think

constantly advertising to us so to think

constantly advertising to us so to think that you can use willpower or you can

that you can use willpower or you can

that you can use willpower or you can try to overcome this you you have to

try to overcome this you you have to

try to overcome this you you have to recognize the danger that we're in and

recognize the danger that we're in and

recognize the danger that we're in and figure out ways to protect yourself from

figure out ways to protect yourself from

figure out ways to protect yourself from all the ways that you're being exploited

all the ways that you're being exploited

all the ways that you're being exploited so especially for something like social

so especially for something like social

so especially for something like social media one of the things that I like to

media one of the things that I like to

media one of the things that I like to do is I just create rules and so one of

do is I just create rules and so one of

do is I just create rules and so one of my rules is we do not just just see an

my rules is we do not just just see an

my rules is we do not just just see an ad willy-nilly and buy that is we don't

ad willy-nilly and buy that is we don't

ad willy-nilly and buy that is we don't do that because we know what's going on

do that because we know what's going on

do that because we know what's going on they're trying to trick us what we do

they're trying to trick us what we do

they're trying to trick us what we do instead is we take that thing that we're

instead is we take that thing that we're

instead is we take that thing that we're thinking about buying and we put it on a

thinking about buying and we put it on a

thinking about buying and we put it on a list we I call it the buy list because

list we I call it the buy list because

list we I call it the buy list because you know I wasn't that creative when I

you know I wasn't that creative when I

you know I wasn't that creative when I was thinking about it but I spend the

was thinking about it but I spend the

was thinking about it but I spend the time imagining buying this thing and I

time imagining buying this thing and I

time imagining buying this thing and I go through the motions of picking the

go through the motions of picking the

go through the motions of picking the color and picking the size and Heming

color and picking the size and Heming

color and picking the size and Heming and hawing and I put on this list and I

and hawing and I put on this list and I

and hawing and I put on this list and I know that the thing has to stay on the

know that the thing has to stay on the

know that the thing has to stay on the list for

list for

list for I don't know 5 days you have to come up

I don't know 5 days you have to come up

I don't know 5 days you have to come up with some sort of time period where the

with some sort of time period where the

with some sort of time period where the thing stays on the list and what happens

thing stays on the list and what happens

thing stays on the list and what happens is when you shopping quote unquote

is when you shopping quote unquote

is when you shopping quote unquote without actually you know spending the

without actually you know spending the

without actually you know spending the money your brain still thinks it's

money your brain still thinks it's

money your brain still thinks it's shopping so often times you get that

shopping so often times you get that

shopping so often times you get that dopamine hit that you're looking for and

dopamine hit that you're looking for and

dopamine hit that you're looking for and I would say 99% of the time Chris I

I would say 99% of the time Chris I

I would say 99% of the time Chris I forget that the list exists until

forget that the list exists until

forget that the list exists until another thing is exciting and enticing

another thing is exciting and enticing

another thing is exciting and enticing and then I put on the list and then I

and then I put on the list and then I

and then I put on the list and then I look and I'm like oh yeah I don't want

look and I'm like oh yeah I don't want

look and I'm like oh yeah I don't want that other thing the other thing that I

that other thing the other thing that I

that other thing the other thing that I like to do is I like to separate my

like to do is I like to separate my

like to do is I like to separate my spending and so when it comes to fun

spending and so when it comes to fun

spending and so when it comes to fun things like going out and uh you know

things like going out and uh you know

things like going out and uh you know all the things that make life feel like

all the things that make life feel like

all the things that make life feel like life all the stuff that you buy that you

life all the stuff that you buy that you

life all the stuff that you buy that you don't really need I like to buy that out

don't really need I like to buy that out

don't really need I like to buy that out of a specific account you can call it

of a specific account you can call it

of a specific account you can call it your allowance account you can call it

your allowance account you can call it

your allowance account you can call it your fun and account call it

your fun and account call it

your fun and account call it whatever you want but allocate like a

whatever you want but allocate like a

whatever you want but allocate like a certain amount of money into that

certain amount of money into that

certain amount of money into that account every month and that's what

account every month and that's what

account every month and that's what you'll use to spend your you know

you'll use to spend your you know

you'll use to spend your you know heart's desire maybe it's just because I

heart's desire maybe it's just because I

heart's desire maybe it's just because I wasn't like super financially Savvy when

wasn't like super financially Savvy when

wasn't like super financially Savvy when I first started working for myself but I

I first started working for myself but I

I first started working for myself but I didn't realize you can just you can have

didn't realize you can just you can have

didn't realize you can just you can have like three or four no fee checking

like three or four no fee checking

like three or four no fee checking accounts so now like what I do is when

accounts so now like what I do is when

accounts so now like what I do is when money comes in whether it's a $5 check

money comes in whether it's a $5 check

money comes in whether it's a $5 check or a $5,000 check I know that if I put

or a $5,000 check I know that if I put

or a $5,000 check I know that if I put 33% away in a tax saving account that I

33% away in a tax saving account that I

33% away in a tax saving account that I will definitely have more than I need

will definitely have more than I need

will definitely have more than I need for taxes and I won't get walloped at

for taxes and I won't get walloped at

for taxes and I won't get walloped at the end of the year so I just put 33% of

the end of the year so I just put 33% of

the end of the year so I just put 33% of every check that comes in into a tax

every check that comes in into a tax

every check that comes in into a tax savings account and then at the end of

savings account and then at the end of

savings account and then at the end of the year when I don't need it at all

the year when I don't need it at all

the year when I don't need it at all it's great like then that becomes like

it's great like then that becomes like

it's great like then that becomes like goes back into the you can spend it

goes back into the you can spend it

goes back into the you can spend it money so for me like having a no a no

money so for me like having a no a no

money so for me like having a no a no fee checking account that is just the

fee checking account that is just the

fee checking account that is just the kind of Untouchable bucket has been

kind of Untouchable bucket has been

kind of Untouchable bucket has been really helpful for that yeah again it's

really helpful for that yeah again it's

really helpful for that yeah again it's like you're forcing scarcity upon

like you're forcing scarcity upon

like you're forcing scarcity upon yourself right like you don't have to do

yourself right like you don't have to do

yourself right like you don't have to do any more Mental Math that's why I really

any more Mental Math that's why I really

any more Mental Math that's why I really like this method because you just like

like this method because you just like

like this method because you just like log into your bank accounts and you can

log into your bank accounts and you can

log into your bank accounts and you can see very clearly like okay that these

see very clearly like okay that these

see very clearly like okay that these buckets are not for me and they're not

buckets are not for me and they're not

buckets are not for me and they're not to spend I think when you have all your

to spend I think when you have all your

to spend I think when you have all your money together it's easy to feel flush

money together it's easy to feel flush

money together it's easy to feel flush and think oh I can I can spend here and

and think oh I can I can spend here and

and think oh I can I can spend here and spend there you're you know and you're

spend there you're you know and you're

spend there you're you know and you're relying then on Mental Math and yeah

relying then on Mental Math and yeah

relying then on Mental Math and yeah there's there's there's better ways

there's there's there's better ways

there's there's there's better ways there's technology we should definitely

there's technology we should definitely

there's technology we should definitely rely on it and free you know resources

rely on it and free you know resources

rely on it and free you know resources like free checking accounts we should

like free checking accounts we should

like free checking accounts we should definitely rely on those things one of

definitely rely on those things one of

definitely rely on those things one of the um biggest obstacles to tackling our

the um biggest obstacles to tackling our

the um biggest obstacles to tackling our finances is often shame feeling ashamed

finances is often shame feeling ashamed

finances is often shame feeling ashamed of how much you earn or how much you

of how much you earn or how much you

of how much you earn or how much you spent or how in debt you went or the

spent or how in debt you went or the

spent or how in debt you went or the choices that you made made or didn't

choices that you made made or didn't

choices that you made made or didn't make how do you personally and then in

make how do you personally and then in

make how do you personally and then in working with other people how do you

working with other people how do you

working with other people how do you think about dealing with shame and that

think about dealing with shame and that

think about dealing with shame and that that kind of really big emotion yeah so

that kind of really big emotion yeah so

that kind of really big emotion yeah so I once heard somebody talk to me about

I once heard somebody talk to me about

I once heard somebody talk to me about shame being

shame being

shame being like um you know you feel shame when you

like um you know you feel shame when you

like um you know you feel shame when you go outside what was expected of you

go outside what was expected of you

go outside what was expected of you right so it's like we are cute little

right so it's like we are cute little

right so it's like we are cute little hores we're in a little Corral I guess

hores we're in a little Corral I guess

hores we're in a little Corral I guess is what it's called those Corrals and

is what it's called those Corrals and

is what it's called those Corrals and that world is you know what the world

that world is you know what the world

that world is you know what the world expects of us right our parents expect

expects of us right our parents expect

expects of us right our parents expect us to go to college and Society at large

us to go to college and Society at large

us to go to college and Society at large expected us to go to college they

expected us to go to college they

expected us to go to college they expected us to do great after college

expected us to do great after college

expected us to do great after college and make all this money and expected us

and make all this money and expected us

and make all this money and expected us to be responsible with our finances they

to be responsible with our finances they

to be responsible with our finances they have these expectations and we stay

have these expectations and we stay

have these expectations and we stay within those Corrals the best we can and

within those Corrals the best we can and

within those Corrals the best we can and when we go outside of it that's when we

when we go outside of it that's when we

when we go outside of it that's when we start to feel like oh no we we busted

start to feel like oh no we we busted

start to feel like oh no we we busted through and we shouldn't have and that's

through and we shouldn't have and that's

through and we shouldn't have and that's kind of where shame is right I shouldn't

kind of where shame is right I shouldn't

kind of where shame is right I shouldn't have gotten the MFA for six figures I

have gotten the MFA for six figures I

have gotten the MFA for six figures I shouldn't have have um made this mistake

shouldn't have have um made this mistake

shouldn't have have um made this mistake at 18 years old of getting this student

at 18 years old of getting this student

at 18 years old of getting this student loan and now I don't you know now I'm

loan and now I don't you know now I'm

loan and now I don't you know now I'm having a hard time getting a job that

having a hard time getting a job that

having a hard time getting a job that pays me enough to live but also pay back

pays me enough to live but also pay back

pays me enough to live but also pay back my loan right or I shouldn't have spent

my loan right or I shouldn't have spent

my loan right or I shouldn't have spent on these credit cards because I was

on these credit cards because I was

on these credit cards because I was raised in this household and there was

raised in this household and there was

raised in this household and there was this expectation of me to be this way so

this expectation of me to be this way so

this expectation of me to be this way so I think maybe looking at shame from that

I think maybe looking at shame from that

I think maybe looking at shame from that perspective can help you realize that

perspective can help you realize that

perspective can help you realize that okay you're you're just going outside

okay you're you're just going outside

okay you're you're just going outside what was expected of you and that's a

what was expected of you and that's a

what was expected of you and that's a hard thing to experience as a human

hard thing to experience as a human

hard thing to experience as a human because we need each other to survive

because we need each other to survive

because we need each other to survive right and so we have this deep and

right and so we have this deep and

right and so we have this deep and profound sense where we want to belong

profound sense where we want to belong

profound sense where we want to belong and we want to be accepted I think just

and we want to be accepted I think just

and we want to be accepted I think just knowing that is really helpful um for me

knowing that is really helpful um for me

knowing that is really helpful um for me like my own personal experience of like

like my own personal experience of like

like my own personal experience of like growing up queer is like a master class

growing up queer is like a master class

growing up queer is like a master class in shame you know you have this Corral

in shame you know you have this Corral

in shame you know you have this Corral around you and you are you're not even

around you and you are you're not even

around you and you are you're not even the horse right you're you're you're

the horse right you're you're you're

the horse right you're you're you're you're something else disguised as a

you're something else disguised as a

you're something else disguised as a horse so if you've dealt with that

horse so if you've dealt with that

horse so if you've dealt with that outside of your finances you know and

outside of your finances you know and

outside of your finances you know and you've been able to work through that um

you've been able to work through that um

you've been able to work through that um you might have a model for doing that I

you might have a model for doing that I

you might have a model for doing that I think another thing is just uh letting

think another thing is just uh letting

think another thing is just uh letting it out like uh journaling is really

it out like uh journaling is really

it out like uh journaling is really helpful for me just getting everything

helpful for me just getting everything

helpful for me just getting everything onto the page confronting why I feel so

onto the page confronting why I feel so

onto the page confronting why I feel so shitty and then you know sharing that

shitty and then you know sharing that

shitty and then you know sharing that with other people I every time I write

with other people I every time I write

with other people I every time I write something in my newsletter where I'm

something in my newsletter where I'm

something in my newsletter where I'm like oh God I was vulnerable why would I

like oh God I was vulnerable why would I

like oh God I was vulnerable why would I do that I why am I telling strangers on

do that I why am I telling strangers on

do that I why am I telling strangers on the internet about my how I'm grappling

the internet about my how I'm grappling

the internet about my how I'm grappling with my sense of worth right now what is

with my sense of worth right now what is

with my sense of worth right now what is the matter with me and then you know

the matter with me and then you know

the matter with me and then you know five people were right back and they're

five people were right back and they're

five people were right back and they're just like I feel so seen like I feel so

just like I feel so seen like I feel so

just like I feel so seen like I feel so much better like I was feeling shitty

much better like I was feeling shitty

much better like I was feeling shitty and this made me and I'm like oh okay

and this made me and I'm like oh okay

and this made me and I'm like oh okay yeah so I hated it it was uncomfortable

yeah so I hated it it was uncomfortable

yeah so I hated it it was uncomfortable I felt embarrassed it was cringey I

I felt embarrassed it was cringey I

I felt embarrassed it was cringey I guess we're going to do it again it also

guess we're going to do it again it also

guess we're going to do it again it also makes me uh want to

makes me uh want to

makes me uh want to know as a musician and as someone

know as a musician and as someone

know as a musician and as someone who plays in a band and makes art um and

who plays in a band and makes art um and

who plays in a band and makes art um and performs it and as a money person

performs it and as a money person

performs it and as a money person how do you think about and this is

how do you think about and this is

how do you think about and this is something I struggle with a lot how do

something I struggle with a lot how do

something I struggle with a lot how do you think about like the value of your

you think about like the value of your

you think about like the value of your work and your your music to yourself not

work and your your music to yourself not

work and your your music to yourself not to the world I think about art as a

to the world I think about art as a

to the world I think about art as a completely different value than money

completely different value than money

completely different value than money right art is a necessity that I have to

right art is a necessity that I have to

right art is a necessity that I have to do in order to process my experience of

do in order to process my experience of

do in order to process my experience of life and then come to the table ho

life and then come to the table ho

life and then come to the table ho whatever table that is right that table

whatever table that is right that table

whatever table that is right that table could be me and my partner or me and my

could be me and my partner or me and my

could be me and my partner or me and my work so I don't look at Art necessarily

work so I don't look at Art necessarily

work so I don't look at Art necessarily as something valued financially

as something valued financially

as something valued financially personally and that's my relationship to

personally and that's my relationship to

personally and that's my relationship to Art someone is becoming a freelancer um

Art someone is becoming a freelancer um

Art someone is becoming a freelancer um they're starting out on their own what's

they're starting out on their own what's

they're starting out on their own what's the most important thing or things that

the most important thing or things that

the most important thing or things that they should do in their first week or

they should do in their first week or

they should do in their first week or their first month Wow first week or

their first month Wow first week or

their first month Wow first week or first month they should um start

first month they should um start

first month they should um start reaching out to their Network and say

reaching out to their Network and say

reaching out to their Network and say hey I'm selling this thing will you buy

hey I'm selling this thing will you buy

hey I'm selling this thing will you buy it or do you know somebody who will and

it or do you know somebody who will and

it or do you know somebody who will and often times that's a service but that's

often times that's a service but that's

often times that's a service but that's the first thing you should be doing is

the first thing you should be doing is

the first thing you should be doing is validating that what you are going to

validating that what you are going to

validating that what you are going to try to make money on will make money

try to make money on will make money

try to make money on will make money they should do the thing that you did

they should do the thing that you did

they should do the thing that you did that you I forgot to say gold star A+

that you I forgot to say gold star A+

that you I forgot to say gold star A+ for checks or whatever with the saving

for checks or whatever with the saving

for checks or whatever with the saving into the tax savings account great and

into the tax savings account great and

into the tax savings account great and what about um first year they're they're

what about um first year they're they're

what about um first year they're they're finishing their first year of doing um

finishing their first year of doing um

finishing their first year of doing um doing something first year you should be

doing something first year you should be

doing something first year you should be working with a small business accountant

working with a small business accountant

working with a small business accountant that you really feel like you like ask

that you really feel like you like ask

that you really feel like you like ask your friends hey buddy who do you work

your friends hey buddy who do you work

your friends hey buddy who do you work with that's a small business accountant

with that's a small business accountant

with that's a small business accountant or go online to an online community of

or go online to an online community of

or go online to an online community of other entrepreneurs in your space and

other entrepreneurs in your space and

other entrepreneurs in your space and ask who do you guys use who's who's the

ask who do you guys use who's who's the

ask who do you guys use who's who's the guy right find the person with that

guy right find the person with that

guy right find the person with that handle and um before the end of the year

handle and um before the end of the year

handle and um before the end of the year you should have a year-end tax planning

you should have a year-end tax planning

you should have a year-end tax planning meeting where you're like hey look at

meeting where you're like hey look at

meeting where you're like hey look at all this money I made look at all this

all this money I made look at all this

all this money I made look at all this money I spent what am I going to owe in

money I spent what am I going to owe in

money I spent what am I going to owe in taxes next year great um what about if

taxes next year great um what about if

taxes next year great um what about if you are a person who has a stable job

you are a person who has a stable job

you are a person who has a stable job that you've had for a few years um and

that you've had for a few years um and

that you've had for a few years um and you are let's say you're in a band or

you are let's say you're in a band or

you are let's say you're in a band or you're making some kind of art on the

you're making some kind of art on the

you're making some kind of art on the side um what Finance advice would you

side um what Finance advice would you

side um what Finance advice would you have for for that person take advantage

have for for that person take advantage

have for for that person take advantage of that paycheck and take advantage of

of that paycheck and take advantage of

of that paycheck and take advantage of what other kinds of benefits you are

what other kinds of benefits you are

what other kinds of benefits you are getting at that company your compens

getting at that company your compens

getting at that company your compens ation is not just how much they're

ation is not just how much they're

ation is not just how much they're paying you your compensation is things

paying you your compensation is things

paying you your compensation is things like your health insurance and things

like your health insurance and things

like your health insurance and things like an employer sponsored retirement

like an employer sponsored retirement

like an employer sponsored retirement plan so take advantage of that as much

plan so take advantage of that as much

plan so take advantage of that as much as you can okay and then your parent and

as you can okay and then your parent and

as you can okay and then your parent and your kid is in late elementary school or

your kid is in late elementary school or

your kid is in late elementary school or or middle school what is an important

or middle school what is an important

or middle school what is an important thing doesn't have to be the most

thing doesn't have to be the most

thing doesn't have to be the most important thing that you can teach them

important thing that you can teach them

important thing that you can teach them about personal finance let's go with two

about personal finance let's go with two

about personal finance let's go with two things one thing is I would make sure

things one thing is I would make sure

things one thing is I would make sure that your child knows that they're

that your child knows that they're

that your child knows that they're valuable in the world no matter what

valuable in the world no matter what

valuable in the world no matter what they do and what they choose help them

they do and what they choose help them

they do and what they choose help them Foster a sense of self-worth and

Foster a sense of self-worth and

Foster a sense of self-worth and confidence because that will translate

confidence because that will translate

confidence because that will translate to a paycheck

to a paycheck

to a paycheck and the other thing is help them

and the other thing is help them

and the other thing is help them understand like the value of money the

understand like the value of money the

understand like the value of money the money is a and value is a very abstract

money is a and value is a very abstract

money is a and value is a very abstract thing I think a lot about money like

thing I think a lot about money like

thing I think a lot about money like music actually it's it's it's very

music actually it's it's it's very

music actually it's it's it's very abstract you can't grab it it's just out

abstract you can't grab it it's just out

abstract you can't grab it it's just out and around and trying to understand

and around and trying to understand

and around and trying to understand value help them understand that

value help them understand that

value help them understand that beautiful um Pac de Leon thank you so

beautiful um Pac de Leon thank you so

beautiful um Pac de Leon thank you so much for being on the show and for

much for being on the show and for

much for being on the show and for gracing us with your your wisdom and

gracing us with your your wisdom and

gracing us with your your wisdom and your presence this was my absolute

your presence this was my absolute

your presence this was my absolute pleasure so thank you for having me