How to pronounce "defer"

but the Ukrainians say yes and NATO says yes,

you are now in a better position globally

because you can now go to other countries with influence over Russia, like China,

and say, "Look, we've got a peace plan.

Here it is.

And we're all on board."

And a lot of the countries in the global South

that just desperately want this war to be over

would, I think, be sympathetic to that

in a way that right now they're not sympathetic to the US position,

which is we defer to Ukraine.

And the Ukrainians are saying "We want all of our land back,"

and everyone knows they're not going to get it back.

So it's endless war.

Endless war that the Ukrainians

are increasingly not going to be capable of fighting.

So the reality, I think,

is that the ultimate policy outcomes

that Trump and Harris would find acceptable,

are closer than you would think.

But the mechanisms that they would use to try to achieve those outcomes