How to pronounce "bloodiest"

pleasure to be here cross free let's

pleasure to be here cross free let's

pleasure to be here cross free let's start by getting a sense from you of how

start by getting a sense from you of how

start by getting a sense from you of how you think of this thing that's happening

you think of this thing that's happening

you think of this thing that's happening now you've covered so many disasters

now you've covered so many disasters

now you've covered so many disasters over the years how do you rate and think

over the years how do you rate and think

over the years how do you rate and think of this one well I think this is a more

of this one well I think this is a more

of this one well I think this is a more dramatic more global and more unusual

dramatic more global and more unusual

dramatic more global and more unusual than anything we have seen in a long

than anything we have seen in a long

than anything we have seen in a long long time because first you have the

long time because first you have the

long time because first you have the healthcare crisis a pandemic that is

healthcare crisis a pandemic that is

healthcare crisis a pandemic that is spread across the world and with unknown

spread across the world and with unknown

spread across the world and with unknown lethality and unknown consequences and

lethality and unknown consequences and

lethality and unknown consequences and that is raging as we speak through the

that is raging as we speak through the

that is raging as we speak through the world but then has come an economic

world but then has come an economic

world but then has come an economic reality which has become more and more

reality which has become more and more

reality which has become more and more acute which we were just hearing about I

acute which we were just hearing about I

acute which we were just hearing about I think it's not right to call this a

think it's not right to call this a

think it's not right to call this a recession or even to talk about a Great

recession or even to talk about a Great

recession or even to talk about a Great Depression this is sort of a great

Depression this is sort of a great

Depression this is sort of a great paralysis because for the first time

paralysis because for the first time

paralysis because for the first time that I can think of in recorded human

that I can think of in recorded human

that I can think of in recorded human history you have had a literal

history you have had a literal

history you have had a literal standstill of the major economies of the

standstill of the major economies of the

standstill of the major economies of the world large parts of the major economies

world large parts of the major economies

world large parts of the major economies of the world which have literally just

of the world which have literally just

of the world which have literally just stopped functioning the basic principle

stopped functioning the basic principle

stopped functioning the basic principle of economic exchange is not happening

of economic exchange is not happening

of economic exchange is not happening because human beings are not in

because human beings are not in

because human beings are not in proximity with one another and therefore

proximity with one another and therefore

proximity with one another and therefore cannot engage in that so you are seeing

cannot engage in that so you are seeing

cannot engage in that so you are seeing a simple paralysis of that which is much

a simple paralysis of that which is much

a simple paralysis of that which is much deeper I think at least in the short

deeper I think at least in the short

deeper I think at least in the short term then even the Great Depression then

term then even the Great Depression then

term then even the Great Depression then you get the result of what this does in

you get the result of what this does in

you get the result of what this does in poor countries because so far we have

poor countries because so far we have

poor countries because so far we have just talked about what is happening in

just talked about what is happening in

just talked about what is happening in rich countries and now you get to the

rich countries and now you get to the

rich countries and now you get to the India's of the world and there you have

India's of the world and there you have

India's of the world and there you have the problems I described except these

the problems I described except these

the problems I described except these countries or cash poor budgets trained

countries or cash poor budgets trained

countries or cash poor budgets trained in budget terms have poor health care

in budget terms have poor health care

in budget terms have poor health care systems and have a lot of overcrowding I

systems and have a lot of overcrowding I

systems and have a lot of overcrowding I mean think about the slums of a place

mean think about the slums of a place

mean think about the slums of a place like Mumbai or Calcutta or Nairobi

like Mumbai or Calcutta or Nairobi

like Mumbai or Calcutta or Nairobi and then you add to this the geopolitics

and then you add to this the geopolitics

and then you add to this the geopolitics that is going to come to play as

that is going to come to play as

that is going to come to play as everybody draws in whereas yes everybody

everybody draws in whereas yes everybody

everybody draws in whereas yes everybody becomes more nationalist the most

becomes more nationalist the most

becomes more nationalist the most powerful expression of that is of course

powerful expression of that is of course

powerful expression of that is of course the European Union which has been the

the European Union which has been the

the European Union which has been the celebration in the pooling of

celebration in the pooling of

celebration in the pooling of sovereignty and what has happened in

sovereignty and what has happened in

sovereignty and what has happened in Europe is almost all the countries in

Europe is almost all the countries in

Europe is almost all the countries in the so-called visa-free zone the

the so-called visa-free zone the

the so-called visa-free zone the passport-free zone the Schengen area

passport-free zone the Schengen area

passport-free zone the Schengen area have reimpose borders for the first time

have reimpose borders for the first time

have reimpose borders for the first time in decades and when Italy asked the

in decades and when Italy asked the

in decades and when Italy asked the European Union which fellow European

European Union which fellow European

European Union which fellow European members for help

members for help

members for help oh the 26 other countries to send them

oh the 26 other countries to send them

oh the 26 other countries to send them medical supplies and things not one said

medical supplies and things not one said

medical supplies and things not one said yes do you have any picture in your mind

yes do you have any picture in your mind

yes do you have any picture in your mind about how you think this will play out I

about how you think this will play out I

about how you think this will play out I mean if it's a unique situation a lot of

mean if it's a unique situation a lot of

mean if it's a unique situation a lot of people are hoping that it's a relatively

people are hoping that it's a relatively

people are hoping that it's a relatively short economic shock we beat defeat the

short economic shock we beat defeat the

short economic shock we beat defeat the virus we somehow managed a careful

virus we somehow managed a careful

virus we somehow managed a careful return to work and life returns to

return to work and life returns to

return to work and life returns to normal is that fantasy thinking I don't

normal is that fantasy thinking I don't

normal is that fantasy thinking I don't think it's fantasy thinking a lot

think it's fantasy thinking a lot

think it's fantasy thinking a lot depends on on how short that the the

depends on on how short that the the

depends on on how short that the the shock is and I do think there's some

shock is and I do think there's some

shock is and I do think there's some hopeful signs that we're seeing we can

hopeful signs that we're seeing we can

hopeful signs that we're seeing we can get into that the data has been very

get into that the data has been very

get into that the data has been very very interesting and it's changing fast

very interesting and it's changing fast

very interesting and it's changing fast if it's short I think you could see a

if it's short I think you could see a

if it's short I think you could see a return to some degree of normalcy but I

return to some degree of normalcy but I

return to some degree of normalcy but I think it'll be very hard to just restart

think it'll be very hard to just restart

think it'll be very hard to just restart the economy because you know what what

the economy because you know what what

the economy because you know what what you realize is that modern economies are

you realize is that modern economies are

you realize is that modern economies are like riding a bicycle on steroids you

like riding a bicycle on steroids you

like riding a bicycle on steroids you know the old line about riding a bicycle

know the old line about riding a bicycle

know the old line about riding a bicycle you have to keep moving forward when you

you have to keep moving forward when you

you have to keep moving forward when you stop it's not like you can just pick up

stop it's not like you can just pick up

stop it's not like you can just pick up where you were think about a restaurant

where you were think about a restaurant

where you were think about a restaurant your credit lines have collapsed your

your credit lines have collapsed your

your credit lines have collapsed your workers in many cases have you know they

workers in many cases have you know they

workers in many cases have you know they have lost their livelihood may have gone

have lost their livelihood may have gone

have lost their livelihood may have gone back to the place they came from may

back to the place they came from may

back to the place they came from may have found another job but out of

have found another job but out of

have found another job but out of desperation public attitudes will not be

desperation public attitudes will not be

desperation public attitudes will not be exactly the same particularly for close

exactly the same particularly for close

exactly the same particularly for close contact businesses like restaurants and

contact businesses like restaurants and

contact businesses like restaurants and so you know because you've had a

so you know because you've had a

so you know because you've had a disruption of supply and demand at the

disruption of supply and demand at the

disruption of supply and demand at the same time

same time

same time it's not going to be that easy to

it's not going to be that easy to

it's not going to be that easy to restart and that is why the government

restart and that is why the government

restart and that is why the government is correctly getting very involved and I

is correctly getting very involved and I

is correctly getting very involved and I have to say on this front the American

have to say on this front the American

have to say on this front the American government seems to be doing more than

government seems to be doing more than

government seems to be doing more than most other governments there are a lot

most other governments there are a lot

most other governments there are a lot of areas where you can say the American

of areas where you can say the American

of areas where you can say the American government has been has been has

government has been has been has

government has been has been has performed abysmally but on the economic

performed abysmally but on the economic

performed abysmally but on the economic front with all the partisanship in in

front with all the partisanship in in

front with all the partisanship in in Washington it is actually properly in

Washington it is actually properly in

Washington it is actually properly in the Federal Reserve as a part of that is

the Federal Reserve as a part of that is

the Federal Reserve as a part of that is properly reacting to the kind of

properly reacting to the kind of

properly reacting to the kind of historic nature of this so I think if

historic nature of this so I think if

historic nature of this so I think if it's a short shock we might get back to

it's a short shock we might get back to

it's a short shock we might get back to some degree of normal though there will

some degree of normal though there will

some degree of normal though there will be industries like travel and

be industries like travel and

be industries like travel and restaurants and theaters maybe sports

restaurants and theaters maybe sports

restaurants and theaters maybe sports that will have a much longer time

that will have a much longer time

that will have a much longer time timeframe if we get a vaccine when we

timeframe if we get a vaccine when we

timeframe if we get a vaccine when we get a vaccine I tend to on that front be

get a vaccine I tend to on that front be

get a vaccine I tend to on that front be a little bit more historically minded by

a little bit more historically minded by

a little bit more historically minded by this you know if the Spanish flu that

this you know if the Spanish flu that

this you know if the Spanish flu that killed multiple multiple multiple times

killed multiple multiple multiple times

killed multiple multiple multiple times as many people in percentage terms as as

as many people in percentage terms as as

as many people in percentage terms as as this one will likely if that didn't kill

this one will likely if that didn't kill

this one will likely if that didn't kill restaurants and theaters and and sports

restaurants and theaters and and sports

restaurants and theaters and and sports I'm not sure this well I I think we

I'm not sure this well I I think we

I'm not sure this well I I think we should we that people are painting a

should we that people are painting a

should we that people are painting a picture of a world where there will

picture of a world where there will

picture of a world where there will never be restaurants and they will never

never be restaurants and they will never

never be restaurants and they will never be movie theaters and there will never

be movie theaters and there will never

be movie theaters and there will never be you know gatherings of any kind

be you know gatherings of any kind

be you know gatherings of any kind I don't know human beings alike to be in

I don't know human beings alike to be in

I don't know human beings alike to be in contact with one another well though I'm

contact with one another well though I'm

contact with one another well though I'm sure that the last pandemic in the

sure that the last pandemic in the

sure that the last pandemic in the Spanish flu killed many businesses and

Spanish flu killed many businesses and

Spanish flu killed many businesses and eventually they came back in DIF it's

eventually they came back in DIF it's

eventually they came back in DIF it's it's it's it's almost hard to separate I

it's it's it's almost hard to separate I

it's it's it's almost hard to separate I mean what's clear is there's gonna be

mean what's clear is there's gonna be

mean what's clear is there's gonna be just massive amounts of tragedy massive

just massive amounts of tragedy massive

just massive amounts of tragedy massive numbers of people who may have seen

numbers of people who may have seen

numbers of people who may have seen their life savings evaporate if they

their life savings evaporate if they

their life savings evaporate if they even ever hadn't you know maybe

even ever hadn't you know maybe

even ever hadn't you know maybe struggling on the breadline right right

struggling on the breadline right right

struggling on the breadline right right now and and yes some kind of life will

now and and yes some kind of life will

now and and yes some kind of life will be come back we I let's let's let's talk

be come back we I let's let's let's talk

be come back we I let's let's let's talk let me just say let me just say one

let me just say let me just say one

let me just say let me just say one thing or one thing about what you said

thing or one thing about what you said

thing or one thing about what you said Chris because it's so important I think

Chris because it's so important I think

Chris because it's so important I think so many of the people who are who we

so many of the people who are who we

so many of the people who are who we deal with or live in a digital economy

deal with or live in a digital economy

deal with or live in a digital economy in which they can work from home their

in which they can work from home their

in which they can work from home their jobs in large part can can

jobs in large part can can

jobs in large part can can continue in some way or the other okay

continue in some way or the other okay

continue in some way or the other okay maybe you lose some business but you

maybe you lose some business but you

maybe you lose some business but you know there is a much greater degree of

know there is a much greater degree of

know there is a much greater degree of stability but for the vast majority of

stability but for the vast majority of

stability but for the vast majority of people who are losing their jobs they're

people who are losing their jobs they're

people who are losing their jobs they're losing their jobs because they're what

losing their jobs because they're what

losing their jobs because they're what can't be digitized and I think it's it's

can't be digitized and I think it's it's

can't be digitized and I think it's it's important to recognize this is creating

important to recognize this is creating

important to recognize this is creating its own kind of new inequality an

its own kind of new inequality an

its own kind of new inequality an equality between the digital economy and

equality between the digital economy and

equality between the digital economy and the and the the material economy between

the and the the material economy between

the and the the material economy between knowledge workers and non wallet workers

knowledge workers and non wallet workers

knowledge workers and non wallet workers which maps on rather Eunos tragically in

which maps on rather Eunos tragically in

which maps on rather Eunos tragically in similar ways to the old inequalities in

similar ways to the old inequalities in

similar ways to the old inequalities in which people with again with who had

which people with again with who had

which people with again with who had knowledge workers did well and people

knowledge workers did well and people

knowledge workers did well and people who were working with their hands did

who were working with their hands did

who were working with their hands did not yeah absolutely and it's it's I mean

not yeah absolutely and it's it's I mean

not yeah absolutely and it's it's I mean the only thing only piece of hope I can

the only thing only piece of hope I can

the only thing only piece of hope I can see from that is that so many people

see from that is that so many people

see from that is that so many people have developed this newfound

have developed this newfound

have developed this newfound appreciation for the amazingness of the

appreciation for the amazingness of the

appreciation for the amazingness of the work of people they didn't spend enough

work of people they didn't spend enough

work of people they didn't spend enough time thinking about you you see you know

time thinking about you you see you know

time thinking about you you see you know people talking with great gratitude

people talking with great gratitude

people talking with great gratitude about their delivery man or the woman

about their delivery man or the woman

about their delivery man or the woman who who you know that for their once a

who who you know that for their once a

who who you know that for their once a week visit to the grocery store if they

week visit to the grocery store if they

week visit to the grocery store if they could manage that or and so forth and

could manage that or and so forth and

could manage that or and so forth and these people are heroes as a works on

these people are heroes as a works on

these people are heroes as a works on the front line question is it's almost

the front line question is it's almost

the front line question is it's almost like is there any chance juice any

like is there any chance juice any

like is there any chance juice any chance that that kind of attitude will

chance that that kind of attitude will

chance that that kind of attitude will survive this that will hold on to that

survive this that will hold on to that

survive this that will hold on to that and somehow reframe the priorities in

and somehow reframe the priorities in

and somehow reframe the priorities in our economy the people who we think

our economy the people who we think

our economy the people who we think should be compensated more perhaps and

should be compensated more perhaps and

should be compensated more perhaps and just how we all think of each other is

just how we all think of each other is

just how we all think of each other is much more interconnected than we know or

much more interconnected than we know or

much more interconnected than we know or do we just forget about this after a

do we just forget about this after a

do we just forget about this after a month of things kind of going back to

month of things kind of going back to

month of things kind of going back to normal I hope we do and I think some of

normal I hope we do and I think some of

normal I hope we do and I think some of that depends on people like you and me

that depends on people like you and me

that depends on people like you and me you know who do have a role in shaping

you know who do have a role in shaping

you know who do have a role in shaping public dialogue in public memory not to

public dialogue in public memory not to

public dialogue in public memory not to make sure that it doesn't get forgotten

make sure that it doesn't get forgotten

make sure that it doesn't get forgotten and that we do remember that you know

and that we do remember that you know

and that we do remember that you know we're all in this together you know I

we're all in this together you know I

we're all in this together you know I often think about that when you when

often think about that when you when

often think about that when you when you're dealing with people in countries

you're dealing with people in countries

you're dealing with people in countries like the United States who are poor who

like the United States who are poor who

like the United States who are poor who don't vote who don't write op-eds you

don't vote who don't write op-eds you

don't vote who don't write op-eds you know how do you make sure that that

know how do you make sure that that

know how do you make sure that that perspective

perspective

perspective and that voice is remembered the

and that voice is remembered the

and that voice is remembered the unfortunately the structural reality is

unfortunately the structural reality is

unfortunately the structural reality is that you know the the digital economy

that you know the the digital economy

that you know the the digital economy will do even better out of this recovery

will do even better out of this recovery

will do even better out of this recovery because people will learn that they can

because people will learn that they can

because people will learn that they can you know buy groceries online when they

you know buy groceries online when they

you know buy groceries online when they might have not you know wanted to do

might have not you know wanted to do

might have not you know wanted to do that before hand and the little

that before hand and the little

that before hand and the little mom-and-pop store on the street corner

mom-and-pop store on the street corner

mom-and-pop store on the street corner might might lose more business as a

might might lose more business as a

might might lose more business as a result of it so it's it's all the more

result of it so it's it's all the more

result of it so it's it's all the more reason to try to remind people that

reason to try to remind people that

reason to try to remind people that we're all in this together so right now

we're all in this together so right now

we're all in this together so right now every country on the planet has this

every country on the planet has this

every country on the planet has this horrible dilemma as to how aggressively

horrible dilemma as to how aggressively

horrible dilemma as to how aggressively you shut things down and and then how if

you shut things down and and then how if

you shut things down and and then how if at all how to bring things back give us

at all how to bring things back give us

at all how to bring things back give us your sense for read on which countries

your sense for read on which countries

your sense for read on which countries have done a good job of managing that

have done a good job of managing that

have done a good job of managing that dilemma and and which really haven't so

dilemma and and which really haven't so

dilemma and and which really haven't so far I think it's actually pretty easy to

far I think it's actually pretty easy to

far I think it's actually pretty easy to tell or right now the data is we have

tell or right now the data is we have

tell or right now the data is we have enough information that we can say that

enough information that we can say that

enough information that we can say that quite definitively you know obviously

quite definitively you know obviously

quite definitively you know obviously there may be second waves and third

there may be second waves and third

there may be second waves and third waves but so far it is not the case that

waves but so far it is not the case that

waves but so far it is not the case that dictatorships have done this better than

dictatorships have done this better than

dictatorships have done this better than democracies that is not the dividing

democracies that is not the dividing

democracies that is not the dividing line the dividing line is places that

line the dividing line is places that

line the dividing line is places that have effective government that have

have effective government that have

have effective government that have depended on experts and acted early so

depended on experts and acted early so

depended on experts and acted early so that the key the key countries that have

that the key the key countries that have

that the key the key countries that have done well have been the ones in East

done well have been the ones in East

done well have been the ones in East Asia and that's China which actually

Asia and that's China which actually

Asia and that's China which actually comes across in many ways worse than

comes across in many ways worse than

comes across in many ways worse than some of the others but because it was a

some of the others but because it was a

some of the others but because it was a very slow start it hid the data it lied

very slow start it hid the data it lied

very slow start it hid the data it lied about it but then when it got finally

about it but then when it got finally

about it but then when it got finally realized it was serious they they

realized it was serious they they

realized it was serious they they handled it very well but the countries

handled it very well but the countries

handled it very well but the countries that really come across well are

that really come across well are

that really come across well are Singapore South Korea Taiwan Hong Kong

Singapore South Korea Taiwan Hong Kong

Singapore South Korea Taiwan Hong Kong and what they did in South Korea is

and what they did in South Korea is

and what they did in South Korea is really probably the model country is

really probably the model country is

really probably the model country is they acted very early they developed

they acted very early they developed

they acted very early they developed their own test the minute the the DNA

their own test the minute the the DNA

their own test the minute the the DNA was sequence was published and then they

was sequence was published and then they

was sequence was published and then they went out and did mass testing mass

went out and did mass testing mass

went out and did mass testing mass testing and contact tracing because the

testing and contact tracing because the

testing and contact tracing because the most important thing you need to

most important thing you need to

most important thing you need to understand is how many people have this

understand is how many people have this

understand is how many people have this disease so that you can understand where

disease so that you can understand where

disease so that you can understand where what parts of

what parts of

what parts of economy what whom to isolate him not to

economy what whom to isolate him not to

economy what whom to isolate him not to isolate things like that so you know

isolate things like that so you know

isolate things like that so you know because without that you're really

because without that you're really

because without that you're really flying blind and what South Korea was

flying blind and what South Korea was

flying blind and what South Korea was able to do was really do the the most

able to do was really do the the most

able to do was really do the the most sophisticated kind of testing which is

sophisticated kind of testing which is

sophisticated kind of testing which is random sampling so you know me because

random sampling so you know me because

random sampling so you know me because what we're doing just think about how we

what we're doing just think about how we

what we're doing just think about how we are arriving at something like our

are arriving at something like our

are arriving at something like our fatality rate how many people died we

fatality rate how many people died we

fatality rate how many people died we only know the people who test for kovat

only know the people who test for kovat

only know the people who test for kovat want the base to the people who fall

want the base to the people who fall

want the base to the people who fall sick are sick enough that they go to a

sick are sick enough that they go to a

sick are sick enough that they go to a hospital or a clinic and the hospital

hospital or a clinic and the hospital

hospital or a clinic and the hospital clinic says okay your symptoms are close

clinic says okay your symptoms are close

clinic says okay your symptoms are close enough to what we think

enough to what we think

enough to what we think Kove it is and we'll we'll test you for

Kove it is and we'll we'll test you for

Kove it is and we'll we'll test you for it and those are the people we test

it and those are the people we test

it and those are the people we test which of course means there are lots of

which of course means there are lots of

which of course means there are lots of me we now know lots of people who have

me we now know lots of people who have

me we now know lots of people who have mild symptoms who get over it think it's

mild symptoms who get over it think it's

mild symptoms who get over it think it's a code all those people don't get

a code all those people don't get

a code all those people don't get counted the South Koreans did all of

counted the South Koreans did all of

counted the South Koreans did all of that they have achieved the most in some

that they have achieved the most in some

that they have achieved the most in some ways the most impressive results in in

ways the most impressive results in in

ways the most impressive results in in the world without a national lockdown

the world without a national lockdown

the world without a national lockdown without shelter in place without

without shelter in place without

without shelter in place without quarantines they have occasionally

quarantines they have occasionally

quarantines they have occasionally selectively done it for a specific you

selectively done it for a specific you

selectively done it for a specific you know with with a bar bars in one area or

know with with a bar bars in one area or

know with with a bar bars in one area or things like that but that's really I

things like that but that's really I

things like that but that's really I think the world should look at that

think the world should look at that

think the world should look at that example because they have achieved it

example because they have achieved it

example because they have achieved it without shutting down the economy it's

without shutting down the economy it's

without shutting down the economy it's almost like the the watchword for a

almost like the the watchword for a

almost like the the watchword for a future pandemic is can you avoid it

future pandemic is can you avoid it

future pandemic is can you avoid it getting out of control and only a few

getting out of control and only a few

getting out of control and only a few countries have done that when you can

countries have done that when you can

countries have done that when you can still be in this containment mode of

still be in this containment mode of

still be in this containment mode of basically being able to track every

basically being able to track every

basically being able to track every known case that is completely different

known case that is completely different

known case that is completely different from the mode of it's out of control we

from the mode of it's out of control we

from the mode of it's out of control we can't possibly track down everyone so we

can't possibly track down everyone so we

can't possibly track down everyone so we just have to shut everything down and

just have to shut everything down and

just have to shut everything down and that's when the massive economic damage

that's when the massive economic damage

that's when the massive economic damage and so forth kicks in so just it almost

and so forth kicks in so just it almost

and so forth kicks in so just it almost still in some ways this crisis plays to

still in some ways this crisis plays to

still in some ways this crisis plays to America's weaknesses rather than to its

America's weaknesses rather than to its

America's weaknesses rather than to its strengths the United States has many

strengths the United States has many

strengths the United States has many strengths but it is a chaotic

strengths but it is a chaotic

strengths but it is a chaotic disorganized messy noisy country right

disorganized messy noisy country right

disorganized messy noisy country right and it slow to stir to action but once

and it slow to stir to action but once

and it slow to stir to action but once it stirs to action you know over time it

it stirs to action you know over time it

it stirs to action you know over time it accomplishes a lot this is the sort of

accomplishes a lot this is the sort of

accomplishes a lot this is the sort of this is Churchill's famous line

this is Churchill's famous line

this is Churchill's famous line the United States is you can count on

the United States is you can count on

the United States is you can count on the United States to do the right thing

the United States to do the right thing

the United States to do the right thing after it has exhausted every other

after it has exhausted every other

after it has exhausted every other alternative so what this well you know

alternative so what this well you know

alternative so what this well you know unfortunately for exactly the reason you

unfortunately for exactly the reason you

unfortunately for exactly the reason you say this is a crisis where early action

say this is a crisis where early action

say this is a crisis where early action helps enormously you know because it

helps enormously you know because it

helps enormously you know because it because of the nature of exponential

because of the nature of exponential

because of the nature of exponential growth if you catch it early it makes a

growth if you catch it early it makes a

growth if you catch it early it makes a big difference unfortunately the United

big difference unfortunately the United

big difference unfortunately the United States did not do that are there any

States did not do that are there any

States did not do that are there any countries in Europe I mean many

countries in Europe I mean many

countries in Europe I mean many countries in Europe also kind of bunched

countries in Europe also kind of bunched

countries in Europe also kind of bunched what what happened certainly when you

what what happened certainly when you

what what happened certainly when you compare that what happened in some Asian

compare that what happened in some Asian

compare that what happened in some Asian countries are there any other impressed

countries are there any other impressed

countries are there any other impressed you yes Germany is Germany is actually

you yes Germany is Germany is actually

you yes Germany is Germany is actually close to South Korea in how well it is

close to South Korea in how well it is

close to South Korea in how well it is handled it started a little bit later

handled it started a little bit later

handled it started a little bit later has all has put in place children you

has all has put in place children you

has all has put in place children you know stay stay at home policies and

know stay stay at home policies and

know stay stay at home policies and social distancing partly because I think

social distancing partly because I think

social distancing partly because I think it it got a slightly slower start

it it got a slightly slower start

it it got a slightly slower start Denmark has done very well as doing

Denmark has done very well as doing

Denmark has done very well as doing random testing and as a result you're

random testing and as a result you're

random testing and as a result you're seeing the Danes are beginning to open

seeing the Danes are beginning to open

seeing the Danes are beginning to open up the economy I think that Iceland is

up the economy I think that Iceland is

up the economy I think that Iceland is doing is doing well again trying to do

doing is doing well again trying to do

doing is doing well again trying to do the Ted you know what you notice about

the Ted you know what you notice about

the Ted you know what you notice about all these are places where the

all these are places where the

all these are places where the government is respected its well funded

government is respected its well funded

government is respected its well funded the bureaucracies get good people those

the bureaucracies get good people those

the bureaucracies get good people those people are able to exercise a lot of you

people are able to exercise a lot of you

people are able to exercise a lot of you know power and and discretion mmm

know power and and discretion mmm

know power and and discretion mmm Whitney so I'm we're seeing a lot of

Whitney so I'm we're seeing a lot of

Whitney so I'm we're seeing a lot of questions online hi there for read about

questions online hi there for read about

questions online hi there for read about the negative impacts on the economy and

the negative impacts on the economy and

the negative impacts on the economy and our lifestyle which are things that

our lifestyle which are things that

our lifestyle which are things that we've been hearing often but can you

we've been hearing often but can you

we've been hearing often but can you speak to some of the the positive things

speak to some of the the positive things

speak to some of the the positive things you see coming out of business it

you see coming out of business it

you see coming out of business it relates to work opportunities that our

relates to work opportunities that our

relates to work opportunities that our economy the lifestyle the way that we

economy the lifestyle the way that we

economy the lifestyle the way that we have been doing things what do you see

have been doing things what do you see

have been doing things what do you see as positive outcomes of this disruption

as positive outcomes of this disruption

as positive outcomes of this disruption well let's let's not minimize the

well let's let's not minimize the

well let's let's not minimize the negative because I think that probably a

negative because I think that probably a

negative because I think that probably a lot of people there who are feeling pain

lot of people there who are feeling pain

lot of people there who are feeling pain and who are experiencing massive

and who are experiencing massive

and who are experiencing massive dislocations in their lives and I think

dislocations in their lives and I think

dislocations in their lives and I think it's important to recognize that it's

it's important to recognize that it's

it's important to recognize that it's important for the government to help to

important for the government to help to

important for the government to help to treat this as a kind of disaster relief

treat this as a kind of disaster relief

treat this as a kind of disaster relief program not as a traditional stimulus

program not as a traditional stimulus

program not as a traditional stimulus you know this is a case where frankly

you know this is a case where frankly

you know this is a case where frankly the government

the government

the government force these businesses for

force these businesses for

force these businesses for understandable reasons but force these

understandable reasons but force these

understandable reasons but force these businesses not to operate or force these

businesses not to operate or force these

businesses not to operate or force these people not to go to work and it is

people not to go to work and it is

people not to go to work and it is incumbent on the government to provide

incumbent on the government to provide

incumbent on the government to provide assistance now what are the

assistance now what are the

assistance now what are the opportunities unfortunately they're

opportunities unfortunately they're

opportunities unfortunately they're mostly in the digital realm right I mean

mostly in the digital realm right I mean

mostly in the digital realm right I mean you're going to you're going to see a

you're going to you're going to see a

you're going to you're going to see a lot your people are finding ways to be

lot your people are finding ways to be

lot your people are finding ways to be able to do things digitally that they

able to do things digitally that they

able to do things digitally that they didn't you know where they were

didn't you know where they were

didn't you know where they were previously doing it in other ways

previously doing it in other ways

previously doing it in other ways meetings you know everything can be done

meetings you know everything can be done

meetings you know everything can be done you you're you're going to find ways to

you you're you're going to find ways to

you you're you're going to find ways to be more productive than you had to do

be more productive than you had to do

be more productive than you had to do look I mean one one piece of this I

look I mean one one piece of this I

look I mean one one piece of this I think about is maybe we all travel too

think about is maybe we all travel too

think about is maybe we all travel too much maybe there are ways to achieve to

much maybe there are ways to achieve to

much maybe there are ways to achieve to do a lot of meetings without having to

do a lot of meetings without having to

do a lot of meetings without having to do the con you know so many of us go

do the con you know so many of us go

do the con you know so many of us go travel a lot it's probably bad for the

travel a lot it's probably bad for the

travel a lot it's probably bad for the environment it's not great for your your

environment it's not great for your your

environment it's not great for your your family life and so maybe there is a kind

family life and so maybe there is a kind

family life and so maybe there is a kind of an ability to just step back and say

of an ability to just step back and say

of an ability to just step back and say you know that we could have a different

you know that we could have a different

you know that we could have a different kind of life we could have we could

kind of life we could have we could

kind of life we could have we could achieve a certain amount in other ways

achieve a certain amount in other ways

achieve a certain amount in other ways but I but I do want to stress you know

but I but I do want to stress you know

but I but I do want to stress you know this is this is very tough on a lot of

this is this is very tough on a lot of

this is this is very tough on a lot of people and it's and unfortunately I

people and it's and unfortunately I

people and it's and unfortunately I think the part we are going to find more

think the part we are going to find more

think the part we are going to find more difficult than people are imagining is

difficult than people are imagining is

difficult than people are imagining is that restart button you know you're not

that restart button you know you're not

that restart button you know you're not going to just push a button and get the

going to just push a button and get the

going to just push a button and get the economy going again for if you think

economy going again for if you think

economy going again for if you think that the Indian government got it right

that the Indian government got it right

that the Indian government got it right in in what they did because the dilemma

in in what they did because the dilemma

in in what they did because the dilemma for them is different from elsewhere

for them is different from elsewhere

for them is different from elsewhere you've got the virus coming but you also

you've got the virus coming but you also

you've got the virus coming but you also have your economy is powered by people

have your economy is powered by people

have your economy is powered by people who who make no money and and and as as

who who make no money and and and as as

who who make no money and and and as as we heard earlier the potential hardship

we heard earlier the potential hardship

we heard earlier the potential hardship that some of them face is is this a case

that some of them face is is this a case

that some of them face is is this a case where the Cure literally might be worse

where the Cure literally might be worse

where the Cure literally might be worse than the disease you know it's a very

than the disease you know it's a very

than the disease you know it's a very tough question and it's a very tough

tough question and it's a very tough

tough question and it's a very tough challenge I would have hated hated to

challenge I would have hated hated to

challenge I would have hated hated to have been in Prime Minister Modi's shoes

have been in Prime Minister Modi's shoes

have been in Prime Minister Modi's shoes clearly what was animating that decision

clearly what was animating that decision

clearly what was animating that decision was this India was an early enough stage

was this India was an early enough stage

was this India was an early enough stage that if you acted quickly

that if you acted quickly

that if you acted quickly again because of this exponential growth

again because of this exponential growth

again because of this exponential growth you could achieve something significant

you could achieve something significant

you could achieve something significant and most importantly India has one of

and most importantly India has one of

and most importantly India has one of the lowest beds per capita in the world

the lowest beds per capita in the world

the lowest beds per capita in the world you know it has a it has a very

you know it has a it has a very

you know it has a it has a very two-tiered healthcare system for the

two-tiered healthcare system for the

two-tiered healthcare system for the rich it's it's one class but

rich it's it's one class but

rich it's it's one class but particularly in rural India it's it's

particularly in rural India it's it's

particularly in rural India it's it's really quite inadequate and so there was

really quite inadequate and so there was

really quite inadequate and so there was an under than knew that if this got out

an under than knew that if this got out

an under than knew that if this got out of control it was going to crash the

of control it was going to crash the

of control it was going to crash the healthcare system in a very big way so

healthcare system in a very big way so

healthcare system in a very big way so they made the decision they did as often

they made the decision they did as often

they made the decision they did as often with Prime Minister Modi he takes

with Prime Minister Modi he takes

with Prime Minister Modi he takes decisions but then takes them you know

decisions but then takes them you know

decisions but then takes them you know there's a kind of weird impulsiveness so

there's a kind of weird impulsiveness so

there's a kind of weird impulsiveness so he gave the country you know one point

he gave the country you know one point

he gave the country you know one point four billion people four hours from 8:00

four billion people four hours from 8:00

four billion people four hours from 8:00 p.m. to midnight to prepare and this is

p.m. to midnight to prepare and this is

p.m. to midnight to prepare and this is a country in which here fifty to sixty

a country in which here fifty to sixty

a country in which here fifty to sixty million migrant workers who are working

million migrant workers who are working

million migrant workers who are working in cities but live hours and hours away

in cities but live hours and hours away

in cities but live hours and hours away this is a country in which is you say

this is a country in which is you say

this is a country in which is you say most businesses conducted face to face

most businesses conducted face to face

most businesses conducted face to face it seems like you could have done you

it seems like you could have done you

it seems like you could have done you could have given people I would have

could have given people I would have

could have given people I would have said you know give them five days or

said you know give them five days or

said you know give them five days or three days to prepare for this but at

three days to prepare for this but at

three days to prepare for this but at the end of the day I think I understand

the end of the day I think I understand

the end of the day I think I understand the the decision Prime Minister Modi

the the decision Prime Minister Modi

the the decision Prime Minister Modi made it is an attempt to say look we're

made it is an attempt to say look we're

made it is an attempt to say look we're going to suppress this as much as we can

going to suppress this as much as we can

going to suppress this as much as we can keep the numbers very low and then when

keep the numbers very low and then when

keep the numbers very low and then when we open up we have the opportunity to do

we open up we have the opportunity to do

we open up we have the opportunity to do some of this testing and tracing I hope

some of this testing and tracing I hope

some of this testing and tracing I hope they're using these three weeks to

they're using these three weeks to

they're using these three weeks to really ramp up mass testing because if

really ramp up mass testing because if

really ramp up mass testing because if you're not you know this is what the

you're not you know this is what the

you're not you know this is what the United States did with the we'd put the

United States did with the we'd put the

United States did with the we'd put the ban on China which was the right thing

ban on China which was the right thing

ban on China which was the right thing to do ban on travel from China but then

to do ban on travel from China but then

to do ban on travel from China but then we didn't take advantage of those three

we didn't take advantage of those three

we didn't take advantage of those three weeks to do anything what's your

weeks to do anything what's your

weeks to do anything what's your diagnosis of why the US didn't do that

it's easy to blame Trump and clearly

it's easy to blame Trump and clearly

it's easy to blame Trump and clearly displayed to Trump's weaknesses

displayed to Trump's weaknesses

displayed to Trump's weaknesses he doesn't believe in experts he doesn't

he doesn't believe in experts he doesn't

he doesn't believe in experts he doesn't believe in science he's impulsive all

believe in science he's impulsive all

believe in science he's impulsive all all he cares about is the stock market

all he cares about is the stock market

all he cares about is the stock market and he worried that this would in some

and he worried that this would in some

and he worried that this would in some way interfere with it with its rise he

way interfere with it with its rise he

way interfere with it with its rise he doesn't like bad news he pushes it away

doesn't like bad news he pushes it away

doesn't like bad news he pushes it away but you know it's worth noting that he

but you know it's worth noting that he

but you know it's worth noting that he even dr. Anthony Fauci gave in

even dr. Anthony Fauci gave in

even dr. Anthony Fauci gave in views in which he said this is not

views in which he said this is not

views in which he said this is not really likely to be a concern for the

really likely to be a concern for the

really likely to be a concern for the United States so I think the way I would

United States so I think the way I would

United States so I think the way I would describe it is I think what happened is

describe it is I think what happened is

describe it is I think what happened is initially people looked at what happened

initially people looked at what happened

initially people looked at what happened in China and they thought because of

in China and they thought because of

in China and they thought because of what the Chinese had done it would stay

what the Chinese had done it would stay

what the Chinese had done it would stay contained in China with a little bit of

contained in China with a little bit of

contained in China with a little bit of leakage what they didn't realize was

leakage what they didn't realize was

leakage what they didn't realize was maybe that the Chinese had allowed

maybe that the Chinese had allowed

maybe that the Chinese had allowed international more international travel

international more international travel

international more international travel or they had locked down on domestic

or they had locked down on domestic

or they had locked down on domestic travel and so they were sort of

travel and so they were sort of

travel and so they were sort of under-reacting a little bit to what what

under-reacting a little bit to what what

under-reacting a little bit to what what was the real nature of the problem when

was the real nature of the problem when

was the real nature of the problem when it then came to Italy Italy was the

it then came to Italy Italy was the

it then came to Italy Italy was the pivotal moment I think when it explodes

pivotal moment I think when it explodes

pivotal moment I think when it explodes in Italy and that's when everyone starts

in Italy and that's when everyone starts

in Italy and that's when everyone starts panicking and you could even argue that

panicking and you could even argue that

panicking and you could even argue that maybe there was a slight overreaction

maybe there was a slight overreaction

maybe there was a slight overreaction and that's why you started seeing models

and that's why you started seeing models

and that's why you started seeing models that said two to three million people

that said two to three million people

that said two to three million people would die because people started using

would die because people started using

would die because people started using the Italian data which i think is very

the Italian data which i think is very

the Italian data which i think is very it's very complicated because Italians

it's very complicated because Italians

it's very complicated because Italians are the over your second oldest

are the over your second oldest

are the over your second oldest population in the world very high

population in the world very high

population in the world very high incidence of smoking very close

incidence of smoking very close

incidence of smoking very close intermingling into intergenerational

intermingling into intergenerational

intermingling into intergenerational living and it may not be representative

living and it may not be representative

living and it may not be representative but but I think that's what happened

but but I think that's what happened

but but I think that's what happened free talk about just that the partisan

free talk about just that the partisan

free talk about just that the partisan divide in so many countries and how you

divide in so many countries and how you

divide in so many countries and how you see this virus impacting that I mean

see this virus impacting that I mean

see this virus impacting that I mean yourself you know you work from CNN it's

yourself you know you work from CNN it's

yourself you know you work from CNN it's regarded on the right as as hopelessly

regarded on the right as as hopelessly

regarded on the right as as hopelessly liberal you've been criticized by people

liberal you've been criticized by people

liberal you've been criticized by people on the right you just criticized Trump

on the right you just criticized Trump

on the right you just criticized Trump right now and so you're right in the

right now and so you're right in the

right now and so you're right in the middle of this constant firestorm of of

middle of this constant firestorm of of

middle of this constant firestorm of of you know partisan battering is there and

you know partisan battering is there and

you know partisan battering is there and yet you you also spoke about some key

yet you you also spoke about some key

yet you you also spoke about some key things that the administration may have

things that the administration may have

things that the administration may have got right here in terms of or at least

got right here in terms of or at least

got right here in terms of or at least in partnership of Congress got right in

in partnership of Congress got right in

in partnership of Congress got right in terms of the stimulus that socially been

terms of the stimulus that socially been

terms of the stimulus that socially been greater than in other countries do you

greater than in other countries do you

greater than in other countries do you see coming away from the actual policy

see coming away from the actual policy

see coming away from the actual policy bit for a minute but just us talking

bit for a minute but just us talking

bit for a minute but just us talking with each other talking with people

with each other talking with people

with each other talking with people around the country and around the world

around the country and around the world

around the country and around the world is there any way that this moment

is there any way that this moment

is there any way that this moment somehow

somehow

somehow you since the partisan design divider is

you since the partisan design divider is

you since the partisan design divider is actually just ramping it up to ever more

actually just ramping it up to ever more

actually just ramping it up to ever more intense levels of the people who are

intense levels of the people who are

intense levels of the people who are disgusted by Trump and what he's done

disgusted by Trump and what he's done

disgusted by Trump and what he's done are probably more disgust and angry now

are probably more disgust and angry now

are probably more disgust and angry now than they have ever been and maybe the

than they have ever been and maybe the

than they have ever been and maybe the people who disgust her the people who

people who disgust her the people who

people who disgust her the people who are disgusted at Trump feel more

are disgusted at Trump feel more

are disgusted at Trump feel more strongly than ever is that is that is

strongly than ever is that is that is

strongly than ever is that is that is there any end to this or are we just in

there any end to this or are we just in

there any end to this or are we just in for I don't know in the US for example

for I don't know in the US for example

for I don't know in the US for example the bloodiest election of all time and

the bloodiest election of all time and

the bloodiest election of all time and and and just in a possibly painful

and and just in a possibly painful

and and just in a possibly painful aftermath can there be any kind of path

aftermath can there be any kind of path

aftermath can there be any kind of path to both national unity and then you know

to both national unity and then you know

to both national unity and then you know international connection out of this I

international connection out of this I

international connection out of this I must go on behalf of a friend many

must go on behalf of a friend many

must go on behalf of a friend many friends you know I wish I could give you

friends you know I wish I could give you

friends you know I wish I could give you much solace but it's been striking

much solace but it's been striking

much solace but it's been striking hasn't it that if you go to if you look

hasn't it that if you go to if you look

hasn't it that if you go to if you look at this last month and a half what is

at this last month and a half what is

at this last month and a half what is most striking is how little Donald

most striking is how little Donald

most striking is how little Donald Trump's approval ratings have moved so

Trump's approval ratings have moved so

Trump's approval ratings have moved so if you look at you know other periods

if you look at you know other periods

if you look at you know other periods and what these kind of national crises

and what these kind of national crises

and what these kind of national crises what tends to happen is the president's

what tends to happen is the president's

what tends to happen is the president's approval ratings go way up you know a

approval ratings go way up you know a

approval ratings go way up you know a george HW bush after the fall of the

george HW bush after the fall of the

george HW bush after the fall of the berlin wall George W Bush after 9/11

berlin wall George W Bush after 9/11

berlin wall George W Bush after 9/11 even Jimmy Carter the first months of

even Jimmy Carter the first months of

even Jimmy Carter the first months of the hostage crisis when the Iranians

the hostage crisis when the Iranians

the hostage crisis when the Iranians took American hostages his numbers went

took American hostages his numbers went

took American hostages his numbers went up because there's a rally around the

up because there's a rally around the

up because there's a rally around the flag it did happen for Trump for

flag it did happen for Trump for

flag it did happen for Trump for something like ten days and he's now

something like ten days and he's now

something like ten days and he's now back to approval rating such a roughly

back to approval rating such a roughly

back to approval rating such a roughly the same as where they were before so in

the same as where they were before so in

the same as where they were before so in other words what is striking about

other words what is striking about

other words what is striking about Donald Trump's approval ratings as a

Donald Trump's approval ratings as a

Donald Trump's approval ratings as a symbol for the partisan divide is how

symbol for the partisan divide is how

symbol for the partisan divide is how little they have moved one way or the

little they have moved one way or the

little they have moved one way or the other so it's that his supporters

other so it's that his supporters

other so it's that his supporters support him no matter what it's his

support him no matter what it's his

support him no matter what it's his opponents dislike him no matter what and

opponents dislike him no matter what and

opponents dislike him no matter what and you're right it's very hard to to bridge

you're right it's very hard to to bridge

you're right it's very hard to to bridge those divides look I try very hard to

those divides look I try very hard to

those divides look I try very hard to approach things from an analytic rather

approach things from an analytic rather

approach things from an analytic rather than a kind of polemical or partisan

than a kind of polemical or partisan

than a kind of polemical or partisan perspective so as you say when if the

perspective so as you say when if the

perspective so as you say when if the administration does something right I

administration does something right I

administration does something right I try to give them credit for it I I will

try to give them credit for it I I will

try to give them credit for it I I will point out I get pilloried on both sides

point out I get pilloried on both sides

point out I get pilloried on both sides by the way the the right doesn't you

by the way the the right doesn't you

by the way the the right doesn't you know doesn't accept the that the credit

know doesn't accept the that the credit

know doesn't accept the that the credit and the Left accuses me of being a

and the Left accuses me of being a

and the Left accuses me of being a traitor but my view is I'm

traitor but my view is I'm

traitor but my view is I'm I'm a journalist I I'm trying to be oh

I'm a journalist I I'm trying to be oh

I'm a journalist I I'm trying to be oh not objective no one is objective I'm

not objective no one is objective I'm

not objective no one is objective I'm trying to be analytic and that's my job

trying to be analytic and that's my job

trying to be analytic and that's my job so for example I'll give you one example

so for example I'll give you one example

so for example I'll give you one example I've been looking a lot at the testing

I've been looking a lot at the testing

I've been looking a lot at the testing data and it does appear that we have

data and it does appear that we have

data and it does appear that we have very bad data that we really need to get

very bad data that we really need to get

very bad data that we really need to get much better testing data and that the

much better testing data and that the

much better testing data and that the initial new data that we are getting

initial new data that we are getting

initial new data that we are getting that that on the basis of the more the

that that on the basis of the more the

that that on the basis of the more the more and more data we're getting it is

more and more data we're getting it is

more and more data we're getting it is it does look like the fatality rates are

it does look like the fatality rates are

it does look like the fatality rates are much lower than we thought in other

much lower than we thought in other

much lower than we thought in other words that this disease might not be as

words that this disease might not be as

words that this disease might not be as fatal and what I find is when I talk to

fatal and what I find is when I talk to

fatal and what I find is when I talk to people everyone's trying to figure out

people everyone's trying to figure out

people everyone's trying to figure out in their heads does that mean that this

in their heads does that mean that this

in their heads does that mean that this is good for Trump is this bad for Trump

is good for Trump is this bad for Trump

is good for Trump is this bad for Trump is this what do you know where should I

is this what do you know where should I

is this what do you know where should I position myself on this and my feeling

position myself on this and my feeling

position myself on this and my feeling is this is just a you know a factual

is this is just a you know a factual

is this is just a you know a factual matter and more importantly we need to

matter and more importantly we need to

matter and more importantly we need to have the best data we need to know what

have the best data we need to know what

have the best data we need to know what the actual fatality rate is whatever

the actual fatality rate is whatever

the actual fatality rate is whatever then you know be mistakes people made in

then you know be mistakes people made in

then you know be mistakes people made in the past whatever the model said but

the past whatever the model said but

the past whatever the model said but it's very difficult to even take

it's very difficult to even take

it's very difficult to even take something like data and completely

something like data and completely

something like data and completely unhinge it from the partisan context in

unhinge it from the partisan context in

unhinge it from the partisan context in which everything is now viewed and that

which everything is now viewed and that

which everything is now viewed and that is part of a much larger discussion

is part of a much larger discussion

is part of a much larger discussion about how we have entered a realm of

about how we have entered a realm of

about how we have entered a realm of really a tribal identity politics where

really a tribal identity politics where

really a tribal identity politics where are our political views reflect us

are our political views reflect us

are our political views reflect us something very deep about our identity

something very deep about our identity

something very deep about our identity and therefore very hard to change

and therefore very hard to change

and therefore very hard to change they reflect who we are

they reflect who we are

they reflect who we are socioeconomically they reflect who we

socioeconomically they reflect who we

socioeconomically they reflect who we are culturally they reflect who we are

are culturally they reflect who we are

are culturally they reflect who we are in terms of our friends circle where we

in terms of our friends circle where we

in terms of our friends circle where we live so it's as you know mere data is

live so it's as you know mere data is

live so it's as you know mere data is not going to change that to take any

not going to change that to take any

not going to change that to take any solace from the fact that scientists are

solace from the fact that scientists are

solace from the fact that scientists are gaining in credibility and is it

gaining in credibility and is it

gaining in credibility and is it possible to imagine that in the in the

possible to imagine that in the in the

possible to imagine that in the in the coming years that people will actually

coming years that people will actually

coming years that people will actually pay more attention when scientists tell

pay more attention when scientists tell

pay more attention when scientists tell us that there's something big about

us that there's something big about

us that there's something big about coming we ought to pay attention to it I

coming we ought to pay attention to it I

coming we ought to pay attention to it I would hope so I mean I hope it makes us

would hope so I mean I hope it makes us

would hope so I mean I hope it makes us realize that in general we are you know

realize that in general we are you know

realize that in general we are you know I remember Michael Gove the British

I remember Michael Gove the British

I remember Michael Gove the British Minister one of Boris Johnson's

Minister one of Boris Johnson's

Minister one of Boris Johnson's associates saying during the brexit

associates saying during the brexit

associates saying during the brexit campaign the British public has had

campaign the British public has had

campaign the British public has had enough with experts and I remember

enough with experts and I remember

enough with experts and I remember thinking

thinking

thinking the time you know when Michael Gove gets

the time you know when Michael Gove gets

the time you know when Michael Gove gets ill I'm assuming he goes to a doctor it

ill I'm assuming he goes to a doctor it

ill I'm assuming he goes to a doctor it doesn't consult you know you know some

doesn't consult you know you know some

doesn't consult you know you know some guru or some or some that something like

guru or some or some that something like

guru or some or some that something like that he goes to somebody who's trained

that he goes to somebody who's trained

that he goes to somebody who's trained and has expertise in the field and those

and has expertise in the field and those

and has expertise in the field and those are to evaluate data and I think what

are to evaluate data and I think what

are to evaluate data and I think what we're realizing here isn't that

we're realizing here isn't that

we're realizing here isn't that situations like this with all the

situations like this with all the

situations like this with all the caveats and with all the complications

caveats and with all the complications

caveats and with all the complications you need experts you need to rely on

you need experts you need to rely on

you need experts you need to rely on them and as you say criseyde what I hope

them and as you say criseyde what I hope

them and as you say criseyde what I hope is that it develop

we have a slight live you know that it

we have a slight live you know that it

we have a slight live you know that it translates that if you believe the

translates that if you believe the

translates that if you believe the science and you and you trust the

science and you and you trust the

science and you and you trust the scientists and you think the data is

scientists and you think the data is

scientists and you think the data is getting better on this issue well maybe

getting better on this issue well maybe

getting better on this issue well maybe when they talk about climate change we

when they talk about climate change we

when they talk about climate change we should also be keeping in mind that the

should also be keeping in mind that the

should also be keeping in mind that the same thing is true and again that the

same thing is true and again that the

same thing is true and again that the data has been proving and reproving and

data has been proving and reproving and

data has been proving and reproving and confirming what they've been saying for

confirming what they've been saying for

confirming what they've been saying for twenty years now

twenty years now

twenty years now indeed let's wrap up with another

indeed let's wrap up with another

indeed let's wrap up with another question from from Whitney and our

question from from Whitney and our

question from from Whitney and our online audience sure the audience is

online audience sure the audience is

online audience sure the audience is very interested in what you're sharing

very interested in what you're sharing

very interested in what you're sharing here for read and there's one question

here for read and there's one question

here for read and there's one question that's really I'm simple which is just

that's really I'm simple which is just

that's really I'm simple which is just how do you see this changing I can't

how do you see this changing I can't

how do you see this changing I can't hear you

hear you

hear you I let me I should keep going Whitney

I let me I should keep going Whitney

I let me I should keep going Whitney because I can hear you and I will be the

because I can hear you and I will be the

because I can hear you and I will be the translation here that strain that sounds

translation here that strain that sounds

translation here that strain that sounds perfect a little workaround yeah the

perfect a little workaround yeah the

perfect a little workaround yeah the question is just simply how do you see

question is just simply how do you see

question is just simply how do you see this changing the balance of power

this changing the balance of power

this changing the balance of power globally so the question was how do you

globally so the question was how do you

globally so the question was how do you see this changing the balance of power

see this changing the balance of power

see this changing the balance of power globally I think again if so much

globally I think again if so much

globally I think again if so much depends on how short this this process

depends on how short this this process

depends on how short this this process is and what it does but I'll tell you

is and what it does but I'll tell you

is and what it does but I'll tell you one of the first things that I've been

one of the first things that I've been

one of the first things that I've been seeing when I've talked to people all

seeing when I've talked to people all

seeing when I've talked to people all around the world when you read newspaper

around the world when you read newspaper

around the world when you read newspaper accounts of what is happening everyone

accounts of what is happening everyone

accounts of what is happening everyone has been stunned at the degree of chaos

has been stunned at the degree of chaos

has been stunned at the degree of chaos in the United States and the degree or

in the United States and the degree or

in the United States and the degree or you know the degree to which the health

you know the degree to which the health

you know the degree to which the health care system has proven to be inadequate

care system has proven to be inadequate

care system has proven to be inadequate we don't even know how many beds we have

we don't even know how many beds we have

we don't even know how many beds we have we don't know how many ventilators we

we don't know how many ventilators we

we don't know how many ventilators we have and that is I think it's a serious

have and that is I think it's a serious

have and that is I think it's a serious blow to America's image because people

blow to America's image because people

blow to America's image because people would think that the United States might

would think that the United States might

would think that the United States might not be you know the most beneficent

not be you know the most beneficent

not be you know the most beneficent power it may not

power it may not

power it may not you know it may do things that they

you know it may do things that they

you know it may do things that they would regard as crazy like invade Iraq

would regard as crazy like invade Iraq

would regard as crazy like invade Iraq but they always thought the American

but they always thought the American

but they always thought the American economy was the best the American

economy was the best the American

economy was the best the American technology was the best and so most

technology was the best and so most

technology was the best and so most people assumed American healthcare would

people assumed American healthcare would

people assumed American healthcare would be would be great I think what they saw

be would be great I think what they saw

be would be great I think what they saw was the crazy quilt patchwork of the

was the crazy quilt patchwork of the

was the crazy quilt patchwork of the American healthcare system with federal

American healthcare system with federal

American healthcare system with federal state local authorities competing if you

state local authorities competing if you

state local authorities competing if you know people don't even have the right

know people don't even have the right

know people don't even have the right data so that piece of American soft

data so that piece of American soft

data so that piece of American soft power if you will the example of

power if you will the example of

power if you will the example of American power has taken a beating the

American power has taken a beating the

American power has taken a beating the second and perhaps more important issue

second and perhaps more important issue

second and perhaps more important issue is that it's not so much what it does to

is that it's not so much what it does to

is that it's not so much what it does to American power it's what it does to the

American power it's what it does to the

American power it's what it does to the idea of common interests and and common

idea of common interests and and common

idea of common interests and and common objectives and common common policies so

objectives and common common policies so

objectives and common common policies so what has happened as I mentioned is

what has happened as I mentioned is

what has happened as I mentioned is everyone has retreated and it is

everyone has retreated and it is

everyone has retreated and it is pursuing things from their narrow

pursuing things from their narrow

pursuing things from their narrow self-interest whether it's the Italians

self-interest whether it's the Italians

self-interest whether it's the Italians the Germans the Chinese the South

the Germans the Chinese the South

the Germans the Chinese the South Koreans and of course the Americans it

Koreans and of course the Americans it

Koreans and of course the Americans it is the biggest the greatest damage to

is the biggest the greatest damage to

is the biggest the greatest damage to the system is done by the Americans

the system is done by the Americans

the system is done by the Americans because we have traditionally been the

because we have traditionally been the

because we have traditionally been the world's leaders the organizers and

world's leaders the organizers and

world's leaders the organizers and things like that so but everywhere you

things like that so but everywhere you

things like that so but everywhere you are seeing a fraying of that

are seeing a fraying of that

are seeing a fraying of that international order a fraying of that

international order a fraying of that

international order a fraying of that sense of cooperation a fraying of the

sense of cooperation a fraying of the

sense of cooperation a fraying of the idea that there are common objectives

idea that there are common objectives

idea that there are common objectives the scientists to be and to be give them

the scientists to be and to be give them

the scientists to be and to be give them credit are working together the

credit are working together the

credit are working together the scientists have been sharing information

scientists have been sharing information

scientists have been sharing information American scientists Chinese scientists

American scientists Chinese scientists

American scientists Chinese scientists and you hear this everywhere European

and you hear this everywhere European

and you hear this everywhere European scientists if only the politicians could

scientists if only the politicians could

scientists if only the politicians could mirror the scientists to me this there's

mirror the scientists to me this there's

mirror the scientists to me this there's a kind of tragic irony here which is

a kind of tragic irony here which is

a kind of tragic irony here which is this is a global this is a classically

this is a global this is a classically

this is a global this is a classically global challenge right we are all in it

global challenge right we are all in it

global challenge right we are all in it together we face a common foe and we

together we face a common foe and we

together we face a common foe and we face and this is almost biblical in its

face and this is almost biblical in its

face and this is almost biblical in its nature we you know this is this would be

nature we you know this is this would be

nature we you know this is this would be the time to unite because this is a

the time to unite because this is a

the time to unite because this is a virus that does not discriminate on the

virus that does not discriminate on the

virus that does not discriminate on the basis of national boundaries on the

basis of national boundaries on the

basis of national boundaries on the basis of skin color on the basis of

basis of skin color on the basis of

basis of skin color on the basis of wealth we're all in it together and

wealth we're all in it together and

wealth we're all in it together and therefore if we pool our resources and

therefore if we pool our resources and

therefore if we pool our resources and we would try to get a vaccine try to get

we would try to get a vaccine try to get

we would try to get a vaccine try to get a cure try to time the openings and

a cure try to time the openings and

a cure try to time the openings and closings the quarantines the reopening

closings the quarantines the reopening

closings the quarantines the reopening zuv travel all

zuv travel all

zuv travel all that would have happened much more

that would have happened much more

that would have happened much more effectively it would be a win-win-win if

effectively it would be a win-win-win if

effectively it would be a win-win-win if we could see that this is a global

we could see that this is a global

we could see that this is a global challenge been there for it would it

challenge been there for it would it

challenge been there for it would it would it necessitates a great global

would it necessitates a great global

would it necessitates a great global response but at that the same time

response but at that the same time

response but at that the same time because of the nature of this challenge

because of the nature of this challenge

because of the nature of this challenge because it involves our health our

because it involves our health our

because it involves our health our security perhaps we've become very

security perhaps we've become very

security perhaps we've become very narrow-minded and and drawn in I'm

narrow-minded and and drawn in I'm

narrow-minded and and drawn in I'm hoping that after the initial shock goes

hoping that after the initial shock goes

hoping that after the initial shock goes away people will realize that you know

away people will realize that you know

away people will realize that you know there really are such enormous benefits

there really are such enormous benefits

there really are such enormous benefits here to cooperating to doing this

here to cooperating to doing this

here to cooperating to doing this together to working with other countries

together to working with other countries

together to working with other countries and that at the end of the day what

and that at the end of the day what

and that at the end of the day what we're all looking for is health safety

we're all looking for is health safety

we're all looking for is health safety security so you know I'm an optimist so

security so you know I'm an optimist so

security so you know I'm an optimist so I do hope that at some point it we

I do hope that at some point it we

I do hope that at some point it we awakened this sense that you know and

awakened this sense that you know and

awakened this sense that you know and you think about the United States we've

you think about the United States we've

you think about the United States we've spent seven hundred billion dollars on

spent seven hundred billion dollars on

spent seven hundred billion dollars on defense every year and we don't have

defense every year and we don't have

defense every year and we don't have enough face masks for our health care

enough face masks for our health care

enough face masks for our health care workers we don't have enough ventilators

workers we don't have enough ventilators

workers we don't have enough ventilators for a critically ill yeah somewhere

for a critically ill yeah somewhere

for a critically ill yeah somewhere somewhere in there we have got to

somewhere in there we have got to

somewhere in there we have got to rethink our priorities well indeed

rethink our priorities well indeed

rethink our priorities well indeed in some ways it's very simple it's about

in some ways it's very simple it's about

in some ways it's very simple it's about math it's about science it's about a

math it's about science it's about a

math it's about science it's about a common enemy when you have a common

common enemy when you have a common

common enemy when you have a common enemy you kind of have to unite against

enemy you kind of have to unite against

enemy you kind of have to unite against it and I still the optimist in me is

it and I still the optimist in me is

it and I still the optimist in me is holding on to that possibility as well

holding on to that possibility as well

holding on to that possibility as well that eventually we'll all come around to

that eventually we'll all come around to

that eventually we'll all come around to that free thank you so much for the work

that free thank you so much for the work

that free thank you so much for the work you're doing for spending this time here

you're doing for spending this time here

you're doing for spending this time here now I do think the world needs more

now I do think the world needs more

now I do think the world needs more analytical journalists Whitney you got

analytical journalists Whitney you got

analytical journalists Whitney you got anything else as we wrap up here no I

anything else as we wrap up here no I

anything else as we wrap up here no I think if you can hear me now on the the

think if you can hear me now on the the

think if you can hear me now on the the audience has been just very the

audience has been just very the

audience has been just very the responding very positively in really

responding very positively in really

responding very positively in really receptive to what you've been saying so

receptive to what you've been saying so

receptive to what you've been saying so thank you so much for you for joining us

thank you so much for you for joining us

thank you so much for you for joining us today thank you but it really is my

today thank you but it really is my

today thank you but it really is my pleasure thank you for you take care